Meta: 'Could Severus be an Obscurial?', from Reddit
Quote from Naaga on April 18, 2023, 3:07 pmSource: Could Severus be an Obscurial?
Could Severus be an Obscurial?
Yes folks, today I want to explain why Snape probably was an Obscurial in secret. What makes me think it was the case? Well…
The background
First, Snape has many elements that would prompt him to develop an Obscurus or something of the like.
- His father hated magic and abused Severus and his mother (OotP, DH). Severus could have resented his own magic if he saw it as the reason his father was so violent and didn't love him. Perhaps he was well on the path of developping an Obscurus that would end up killing him, as he desired to be loved by his father and hated in turn his own magic; up until he met Lily at an early age, during which he rediscovered the wonders of magic, decided to love Lily and despise his father instead (even though inside he could still desire his love). Loving Lily and her magic could have prompted him to accept his own magic, before his Obscurus truly went out of control.
- Traumatic school experience. As we all know, Severus was horribly bullied throughout school. He could have come to hate himself for being a wizard and thus having no choice but to study at Hogwarts instead of another school where things probably would have been better (where he wouldn’t be tormented and humiliated on the daily by his classmates). He could have resented his magic for being so weak. He could have resented having so little control over himself (and in general, in own life), notably after losing Lily, and that urge to regain control of himself could have prompted him to try and tame his magic excessively. Besides, traumatic and violent life conditions seems to make it easier to develop an Obscurus.
- He lived through war, witnessed horrible things and Lily died; again, he could have resented being a wizard, having been born at all. We know he certainly wanted to die.
- In summary: His life sucked.
- He’s a Master Occlumens. Occlumency has a lot to do with controlling yourself, your magic, your thoughts and emotions, which prompts me to think that excessive Occlumency could be used to keep check on an Obscurus, but also be the cause of it.
The parallel with Ariana
As you might know, Ariana was described as an Obscurial, regardless she wasn’t precisely named as such:
She wouldn’t use magic, but she couldn’t get rid of it; it turned inward and drove her mad, it exploded out of her when she couldn’t control it, and at times she was strange and dangerous.
What I couldn’t get rid of my head is this:
When my sister was six years old, she was attacked, set upon, by three Muggle boys. […] They forced their way through the hedge, and when she couldn’t show them the trick, they got a bit carried away trying to stop the little freak doing it.
Now the parallel I talk about?
Lupin looked sideways at Sirius and then said, “Look, Harry, what you’ve got to understand is that your father and Sirius were the best in the school at whatever they did — everyone thought they were the height of cool — if they sometimes got a bit carried away —”
This is how Lupin justifies SWM, the Werewolf Incident, and the years of unrelentless torture from four wizard boys to an innocent. “They got a bit carried away.”
What happened last time a similar thing happened?
It destroyed her, what they did; She was never right again.
Dumbledore about Severus:
“But I forgot — another old man’s mistake — that some wounds run too deep for the healing.”
(Just like wounds caused by Dark Magic can almost never heal.)
Severus and Ariana are very alike: they both were irremedially wounded, destroyed and changed through the pain inflicted by their respective assaulters.
If Ariana can become an Obscurial from that one traumatic experience with three Muggle boys, Severus can develop one as well from countless traumatic experiences with four Wizard boys + a Muggle father. As well as whatever shit happened in his life later on.
The parallel with Credence.
In Pottermore, we learn that Snape was whipped by his father (see: The etymology of Defense Against the Dark Arts professor names). In FB1, Credence is whipped/betled by his… “caretaker”. Credence ends up killing her, so I wonder what Severus could have made of his father.
Also it seems that Credence’s love for Nagini helped him keep control over his magic, so it could parallel Snape’s love for Lily that may have helped him control his Obscurus as well.
The signs
Severus is not just the best Occlumens of Wizarding Britain—and perhaps, the world—he also show signs that his magic is quite overpowered and explosive.
- When Snape uses the Disarming Spell against Lockhart, he actually blasts Lockhart off his feet against the wall, which is not what Expelliarmus is supposed to do. We know that because in DH Harry wants to use Expelliarmus so it’ll only disarm the opponent, whereas Stupefy would blast them off their broomsticks and kill them with the hundreds-of-meters high fall. (But if Snape had used Expelliarmus against them, who knows, they might have been blasted off their broomsticks like Lockhart was in CoS, so there’s definitely a difference in Harry’s and Severus’ magic.) Now, we could argue that it's possible to use Expelliarmus to blast someone off their feet, as we see the Trio doing in the Shack together, but then it would suggest two things: that Snape is incredibly powerful all by himself, and/or that his Obscurus is "casting" the spell alongside him.
- When Severus uses Avada Kedavra against Dumbledore, which is supposed to just sweep the soul away, he blasts Dumbledore and make him topple over the tower’s edge to his fall.
- When Snape uses non-verbal Incarcerous against Lupin in the Shack: “BANG! Thin, snakelike cords burst from the end of Snape’s wand and twisted themselves around Lupin’s mouth, wrists, and ankles; he overbalanced and fell to the floor, unable to move.”
- When Harry tries to use Levicorpus on Snape? ’“No, Potter!” screamed Snape. There was a loud BANG and Harry was soaring backward, hitting the ground hard again, and this time his wand flew out of his hand.’
- When Severus shoves Harry away from his mind, his magic apparently also shoves him away physically: ’”ENOUGH!“ Harry felt as though he had been pushed hard in the chest; he took several staggering steps backward, hit some of the shelves covering Snape’s walls and heard something crack. Snape was shaking slightly, very white in the face.’
- In Chamber of Secrets, Snape cancels a whole room of spells with one Finite Incantatem during the Dueling Club, demonstrating yet again his overpowered magic.
- Perhaps this is just a result of accidental magic, but still, remember when Petunia made a jibe at Severus’ clothes being his mother’s and a branch fell from the tree, falling on Petub*tch? Perhaps his Obscurus acted out of his control.
- Another instance of Severus’ poor control on his own magic too: “A girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a bucking broomstick —” Poor control of a broomstick might be related to poor control of one's magic.
- Severus learned to fly unsupported, maybe thanks to having mastered his Obscurus and its power.
So now we got many in-books clues; but here comes the cherry:
Fantastic Beasts Quote
Ok I know all the problems that come with FB, but still, hear me out.
Why did Grindelwald search for an Obscurial? If you look at this scene, Dumbledore says:
“He had a vision, he said, many years ago, in which an Obscurial killed the man he fears above all others.”
“You”, Newt will say to Dumbledore.
But we know Credence isn’t the one because… Snape fills that role already. Correction: Snape is the Obscurial who killed Dumbledore.
Now you’ll tell me that not only is this scene in a FB movie, which makes it credibility shaky at best, but also that this comes from a deleted scene. True. But does it make it irrevocably irrelevant? There is another deleted scene from FB1 where we are shown a dragon with three heads in Newt’s magical zoo. Later, in FB2, Newt uses a description of this dragon with Tina. Meaning that the creators can still consider deleted scenes as valid, at least story-wise.
And this vision makes so much more sense than whatever bullshit they gave us at the end of FB2. Severus is the Obscurial Grindelwald was truly searching for. It was not the little girl from FB1. It was not Credence. It was Severus.
It explains why Dumbledore believes (regardless he admits it to himself or not) in visions and prophecies, even though he doesn’t like Divination and wanted to stop the subject being taught at Hogwarts.
Who knows, perhaps it explains why Dumbledore treated Snape like shit. Did he know or feel that Severus was the Obscurial that would kill him? Did Dumbledore… fear him? Did he resent Severus, realizing that Grindelwald wasted his time on the wrong Obscurial? Maybe that’s why Dumbledore mistreated and neglected chlid-Severus so much, as if he was already the filthiest of criminals. Only, he didn’t know the vision would sort itself out in agreed suicide rather than murder. Oh, the irony Dumbledore must have felt when he realized that indeed, Severus would be the Obscurial that “killed” him, and that Dumbledore actually wanted for Snape to do it. That he asked such a “great favour” from what Grindelwald would call “a miracle”.
Severus Snape, the Obscurial Occlumens.
Now, this might never be confirmed as canon... but it is fun to think about.
And it's chilling to see Snape could have fit the portrait of an Obscurial.
Source: Could Severus be an Obscurial?
Could Severus be an Obscurial?
Yes folks, today I want to explain why Snape probably was an Obscurial in secret. What makes me think it was the case? Well…
The background
First, Snape has many elements that would prompt him to develop an Obscurus or something of the like.
- His father hated magic and abused Severus and his mother (OotP, DH). Severus could have resented his own magic if he saw it as the reason his father was so violent and didn't love him. Perhaps he was well on the path of developping an Obscurus that would end up killing him, as he desired to be loved by his father and hated in turn his own magic; up until he met Lily at an early age, during which he rediscovered the wonders of magic, decided to love Lily and despise his father instead (even though inside he could still desire his love). Loving Lily and her magic could have prompted him to accept his own magic, before his Obscurus truly went out of control.
- Traumatic school experience. As we all know, Severus was horribly bullied throughout school. He could have come to hate himself for being a wizard and thus having no choice but to study at Hogwarts instead of another school where things probably would have been better (where he wouldn’t be tormented and humiliated on the daily by his classmates). He could have resented his magic for being so weak. He could have resented having so little control over himself (and in general, in own life), notably after losing Lily, and that urge to regain control of himself could have prompted him to try and tame his magic excessively. Besides, traumatic and violent life conditions seems to make it easier to develop an Obscurus.
- He lived through war, witnessed horrible things and Lily died; again, he could have resented being a wizard, having been born at all. We know he certainly wanted to die.
- In summary: His life sucked.
- He’s a Master Occlumens. Occlumency has a lot to do with controlling yourself, your magic, your thoughts and emotions, which prompts me to think that excessive Occlumency could be used to keep check on an Obscurus, but also be the cause of it.
The parallel with Ariana
As you might know, Ariana was described as an Obscurial, regardless she wasn’t precisely named as such:
She wouldn’t use magic, but she couldn’t get rid of it; it turned inward and drove her mad, it exploded out of her when she couldn’t control it, and at times she was strange and dangerous.
What I couldn’t get rid of my head is this:
When my sister was six years old, she was attacked, set upon, by three Muggle boys. […] They forced their way through the hedge, and when she couldn’t show them the trick, they got a bit carried away trying to stop the little freak doing it.
Now the parallel I talk about?
Lupin looked sideways at Sirius and then said, “Look, Harry, what you’ve got to understand is that your father and Sirius were the best in the school at whatever they did — everyone thought they were the height of cool — if they sometimes got a bit carried away —”
This is how Lupin justifies SWM, the Werewolf Incident, and the years of unrelentless torture from four wizard boys to an innocent. “They got a bit carried away.”
What happened last time a similar thing happened?
It destroyed her, what they did; She was never right again.
Dumbledore about Severus:
“But I forgot — another old man’s mistake — that some wounds run too deep for the healing.”
(Just like wounds caused by Dark Magic can almost never heal.)
Severus and Ariana are very alike: they both were irremedially wounded, destroyed and changed through the pain inflicted by their respective assaulters.
If Ariana can become an Obscurial from that one traumatic experience with three Muggle boys, Severus can develop one as well from countless traumatic experiences with four Wizard boys + a Muggle father. As well as whatever shit happened in his life later on.
The parallel with Credence.
In Pottermore, we learn that Snape was whipped by his father (see: The etymology of Defense Against the Dark Arts professor names). In FB1, Credence is whipped/betled by his… “caretaker”. Credence ends up killing her, so I wonder what Severus could have made of his father.
Also it seems that Credence’s love for Nagini helped him keep control over his magic, so it could parallel Snape’s love for Lily that may have helped him control his Obscurus as well.
The signs
Severus is not just the best Occlumens of Wizarding Britain—and perhaps, the world—he also show signs that his magic is quite overpowered and explosive.
- When Snape uses the Disarming Spell against Lockhart, he actually blasts Lockhart off his feet against the wall, which is not what Expelliarmus is supposed to do. We know that because in DH Harry wants to use Expelliarmus so it’ll only disarm the opponent, whereas Stupefy would blast them off their broomsticks and kill them with the hundreds-of-meters high fall. (But if Snape had used Expelliarmus against them, who knows, they might have been blasted off their broomsticks like Lockhart was in CoS, so there’s definitely a difference in Harry’s and Severus’ magic.) Now, we could argue that it's possible to use Expelliarmus to blast someone off their feet, as we see the Trio doing in the Shack together, but then it would suggest two things: that Snape is incredibly powerful all by himself, and/or that his Obscurus is "casting" the spell alongside him.
- When Severus uses Avada Kedavra against Dumbledore, which is supposed to just sweep the soul away, he blasts Dumbledore and make him topple over the tower’s edge to his fall.
- When Snape uses non-verbal Incarcerous against Lupin in the Shack: “BANG! Thin, snakelike cords burst from the end of Snape’s wand and twisted themselves around Lupin’s mouth, wrists, and ankles; he overbalanced and fell to the floor, unable to move.”
- When Harry tries to use Levicorpus on Snape? ’“No, Potter!” screamed Snape. There was a loud BANG and Harry was soaring backward, hitting the ground hard again, and this time his wand flew out of his hand.’
- When Severus shoves Harry away from his mind, his magic apparently also shoves him away physically: ’”ENOUGH!“ Harry felt as though he had been pushed hard in the chest; he took several staggering steps backward, hit some of the shelves covering Snape’s walls and heard something crack. Snape was shaking slightly, very white in the face.’
- In Chamber of Secrets, Snape cancels a whole room of spells with one Finite Incantatem during the Dueling Club, demonstrating yet again his overpowered magic.
- Perhaps this is just a result of accidental magic, but still, remember when Petunia made a jibe at Severus’ clothes being his mother’s and a branch fell from the tree, falling on Petub*tch? Perhaps his Obscurus acted out of his control.
- Another instance of Severus’ poor control on his own magic too: “A girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a bucking broomstick —” Poor control of a broomstick might be related to poor control of one's magic.
- Severus learned to fly unsupported, maybe thanks to having mastered his Obscurus and its power.
So now we got many in-books clues; but here comes the cherry:
Fantastic Beasts Quote
Ok I know all the problems that come with FB, but still, hear me out.
Why did Grindelwald search for an Obscurial? If you look at this scene, Dumbledore says:
“He had a vision, he said, many years ago, in which an Obscurial killed the man he fears above all others.”
“You”, Newt will say to Dumbledore.
But we know Credence isn’t the one because… Snape fills that role already. Correction: Snape is the Obscurial who killed Dumbledore.
Now you’ll tell me that not only is this scene in a FB movie, which makes it credibility shaky at best, but also that this comes from a deleted scene. True. But does it make it irrevocably irrelevant? There is another deleted scene from FB1 where we are shown a dragon with three heads in Newt’s magical zoo. Later, in FB2, Newt uses a description of this dragon with Tina. Meaning that the creators can still consider deleted scenes as valid, at least story-wise.
And this vision makes so much more sense than whatever bullshit they gave us at the end of FB2. Severus is the Obscurial Grindelwald was truly searching for. It was not the little girl from FB1. It was not Credence. It was Severus.
It explains why Dumbledore believes (regardless he admits it to himself or not) in visions and prophecies, even though he doesn’t like Divination and wanted to stop the subject being taught at Hogwarts.
Who knows, perhaps it explains why Dumbledore treated Snape like shit. Did he know or feel that Severus was the Obscurial that would kill him? Did Dumbledore… fear him? Did he resent Severus, realizing that Grindelwald wasted his time on the wrong Obscurial? Maybe that’s why Dumbledore mistreated and neglected chlid-Severus so much, as if he was already the filthiest of criminals. Only, he didn’t know the vision would sort itself out in agreed suicide rather than murder. Oh, the irony Dumbledore must have felt when he realized that indeed, Severus would be the Obscurial that “killed” him, and that Dumbledore actually wanted for Snape to do it. That he asked such a “great favour” from what Grindelwald would call “a miracle”.
Severus Snape, the Obscurial Occlumens.
Now, this might never be confirmed as canon... but it is fun to think about.
And it's chilling to see Snape could have fit the portrait of an Obscurial.
Quote from Heatherlly on April 18, 2023, 5:59 pmEh, I don't buy this theory at all. First, I don't consider FB to be a reliable source, especially in context with Severus's character, and second, I think it does him a huge disservice. I believe he's exceptionally powerful/talented due to his own hard work, not factors beyond his control. Yes, he had a natural proclivity toward certain aspects of magic (Potions, Occlumency, etc), but he also dedicated himself to mastering them.
Finally, Severus never shows any sign of an aversion to magic, even as a child. Right from that first meeting with Lily at the playground, it's obvious that he finds a great deal of value in and is excited by magic. It's what makes him (and Lily) special, and he can't wait to go off to Hogwarts and become a proper wizard.
I don't think that's a shift that happened overnight just because he became friends with Lily. It's a core part of his personality at that stage in his life, one that makes perfect sense in context with his upbringing.
I could go on, but I'll leave it at that for now. Point is, while the theory above is creative, it doesn't fit at all with my interpretation of his character.
Eh, I don't buy this theory at all. First, I don't consider FB to be a reliable source, especially in context with Severus's character, and second, I think it does him a huge disservice. I believe he's exceptionally powerful/talented due to his own hard work, not factors beyond his control. Yes, he had a natural proclivity toward certain aspects of magic (Potions, Occlumency, etc), but he also dedicated himself to mastering them.
Finally, Severus never shows any sign of an aversion to magic, even as a child. Right from that first meeting with Lily at the playground, it's obvious that he finds a great deal of value in and is excited by magic. It's what makes him (and Lily) special, and he can't wait to go off to Hogwarts and become a proper wizard.
I don't think that's a shift that happened overnight just because he became friends with Lily. It's a core part of his personality at that stage in his life, one that makes perfect sense in context with his upbringing.
I could go on, but I'll leave it at that for now. Point is, while the theory above is creative, it doesn't fit at all with my interpretation of his character.
Quote from Krystal on April 19, 2023, 8:23 amThis is fine as a theory but unless explicitly mentioned, it doesn't seem true.
I do like it so I won't mind to see this explored in the fanfics.
This is fine as a theory but unless explicitly mentioned, it doesn't seem true.
I do like it so I won't mind to see this explored in the fanfics.