HP Weekly Discussion: Favoritism
I also believe that once Voldemort started to become a threat outside the British Isles, other magical communities would intervene and in case Voldemort did defeat Harry, he would start considering himself invincible and attempt to expand his rule.
Voldemort is a rather cartoonish villain, that's why people hate Umbridge more than him because she is the kind of evil all of us have experienced at some point in our life. As a typical cartoon villain though, he would set world domination as his goal eventually. Once he tries to intervene in the politics of other magical communities or even goes too far in breaking the statute of secrecy, there will be those who will try to bring back things to normal and fight him and there will be those who will be inspired by his goal and ambitions and join him so a Wizarding World War would be a possibility.
I don't know whether Voldemort is (kind of )a cartoonish villain.
I'd be interested to hear some further expansion on this.
Personally, I think Voldemort was a master of manipulation, which included appearing forgiving and even kind to lure in the hapless, the ignorant, and those lustful of power. The slavishness of his followers suggests this, like when Quirrell described how Voldemort had cured him of a belief in good versus evil. Voldemort's relationship with Snape is another example: despite Snape repeatedly failing to kill Harry Potter, his relationship with Voldemort was of a nature where he could rationally explain the reasons why (and undoubtedly be subjected to Legilimency) and not face the threat of execution that others did.
I mean he is a fictional kind of evil, not a realistic one. A megalomaniac who insists on being called the Dark Lord, his inhuman appearance, his tunnel vision when it comes to getting rid of Harry, believing in a silly prophecy and acting to prevent it, greedily making more horcruxes despite the consequences, these are all things that make me take him less seriously as a villain when compared to Umbridge or even Grindewald who are people we encounter in real life.
Now, I really like Tom Riddle as a realistic villain. A young and ambitious man who uses his looks and charisma to wrap most other people around his finger, the prefect who murdered a fellow student and framed Hagrid and the young man who manipulated Ginny into his bidding. I like a Voldemort who is not excessively, even recklessly power-hungry, one who is evil enough to ensure his immortality through murder but values quality over quantity and so doesn't go further than two horcruxes which are better hidden away than spread in locations that were somewhat significant during his youth and easily deduced by his arch-nemesis.
It was so simple, all he had to do was drop harry from a bit of a height and it would have done the trick. But then again, it wouldn't be harry potter anymore if the story ended right then and there. Or maybe, then Severus would have been the main character trying to stop him. Too many possibilites and yet I don't have a time turner which makes me quite sad.
I want to add to @darkangel's arguments.
Voldemort is the kind of villain you see in kids books, where there is a very clear distinction between good and evil. He has no redeeming qualities; he is quite literally incapable of love, to the point where he doesn't even understand it. He tortures and murders his own followers, leads a war for completely selfish reasons, and feels no empathy whatsoever. In other words, his character is as black as can be and that's just not something you see in real life.
There are theories that the way Voldemort turned out is the result of how Dumbledore treated him. That would make him less cartoonish as he would've been "good" at some point, but I honestly don't find it very plausible. Dumbledore was just one teacher among many, and everyone else was entranced by Riddle's charisma...
Back to villains now, the way I've described it, Umbridge also fits into my cartoonish villain profile. I think people hate her more because we see her abuse firsthand, whereas Voldemort is this faraway bad guy we only ever hear about through the Prophet and by word of mouth. I'd love to hear about Umbridge's qualities that make her realistic (especially good ones); this almost sounds worthy of a separate discussion.
I agree with everyone else about possible involvement of other Wizarding communities in the scenario where Voldemort wins the second war. He's a meglomaniac who won't be satisfied with just Wizarding UK and he'd eventually become a greater European threat, just like Grindelwald. He'd also find support from other radical pure bloods and wizarding supremacists who'd been silent for years and find an opportunity in Voldemort.
Now moving on to the interesting topic about villains proposed by @darkangel, I think both Voldemort and Umbridge are different types of cartoonish villains.
Voldemort is as @darkangel and @salvyus said, a loveless monster without any redeemable quality. He is cruel, selfish, narcissistic and has no understanding of love. But I disagree with Dark Angel about difference between Tom Riddle and Voldemort. They are same person, their situations allowed them to react differently therefore they seem different at glance.
Young Tom Riddle before Hogwarts was just like adult Voldemort, he ruled other children through fear, bullied other without consequences, made others disppear, took the precious items of other children (precursor of possessing valuable items for horcruxes), showed all signs of narcissistic behaviour with thinking he was special. He was the most powerful person in Wool's orphanage and he could do whatever he wanted. He got reality check with Dumbledore's apprival who talked about his bad behaviour, set fire on his storage thus, could enforce consequences on Tom. Tom is no more the most powerful person.
The teen Tom thus, thanks to this reality check, cultivated a different personality to avoid Dumbledore's scrutiny and possibly from others. He became charismatic, charming, teacher's pet, model student and eventually Prefect and Head Boy. But true Tom always walked around and did things like setting free the Basilisk, investigation of his ancestory, petrification of muggleborns and killing of Myrtle. Here, he only stopped because Basilisk attacks were making Hogwarts shut down and he didn't want to lose his only home, Hogwarts was a special place for someone special like Tom. Thus, he got Hagrid framed and prevented Hogwarts' closure. He also had to tread carefully because only Dumbledore knowing his past, was able to provide a check to his true tendencies.
He recruited followers who became founding members of the Death Eaters. He also laid low after graduation, collecting and making horcruxes, building alliances and making himself a new identity free from name of his muggle father and called himself Voldemort, to again emphasize his special character.
Death Eaters were less of a organized group and more of a cult, centralised against Voldemort and acting as extension of his will. Voldemort, now a powerful dark wizard, begun showing his true character again. He shed the name and appearance of his loathed muggle father, begin ruling with cruelty, and showed same traits he showed as young Tom Riddle, with no authority able to frigten him, only one who he feared was Dumbledore because he always understood Tom's true self.
Umbridge was again, another cartoon villian because she seemed a cartoonish bad person. She was fat and ugly, nasty, abused the ministry's authority and overall a bad person who was responsible for representing the evil side of ministry. She seems more real and easier to hate because it is easier to project our issues with bad authority rather than experience with a terrorist figure.
And, Umbridge is also more hated than Tom Riddle because of looks. Umbridge is described as toad like, fat, ugly and obsessed with ugly shades of pink colour. She is a character made to be hated. While, Tom Riddle is liked because of his looks and many people make excuses for him in real life and fanfics. Hell, many fics treat Tom Riddle and Voldemort as seperate person due to the looks criteria and Tom Riddle is made as misunderstood boy who became a villain due to Dumbeldore is common narrative in Tom Riddle centric fics.
Looks criteria is why many people in fandom are quick to forgive and make excuses for Tom Riddle, Sirius Black, Draco Malfoy, Bellatrix Lestrange, Malfoys and Regulus Black while ugly people like Severus Snape get hate despite being a far better person than the previous named figures.
Speaking of Umbridge, one thing I found interesting in movie canon was her ability to maintain a Patronus. This implies having legitimately happy memories that don't involve the suffering of others.
I think Severus was also supposedly a cartoonish villain in early books. He is shown as nasty, hateful, bullying, and cruel to the main character, i.e., Harry, and both of them were shown hating each other.
Severus started gaining complexity gradually by the end of the first book. We got to know more about his past since the 3rd book and OOTP revealed his bad childhood, and he received sympathy from both Harry and readers.
His true alligences and motivation were revealed in DH, which completed the puzzle of his character. Suddenly, he is far more complex than the supposed earlier cartoonish villain of earlier books.
That's why the fandom has a hard time deciding his morality. Unlike others who are far easier to categorize into good and bad, he showed either the worst or bad traits in books, and his character is still highly debated to this day.
Old readers grew up with books, and like Harry, they also grew mentally and emotionally to understand Severus's character. New readers binge read or watch, unable to move past the initial bad impression of early books and having a hard time understanding Severus's character and complexity. That's one of the reasons for the recent rise of hate for Severus.
You gotta give them a break. Not everyone is blessed with critical thinking skills or reading comprehension. Obviously, I sound like an elitist prick. I have enough self-awareness for that. I never had a negative opinion of Severus from what I read in the books or watched in the movies. To me, he just seemed like a no nonsense strict teacher. As for his faults as a teacher, the other staff were more or less the same. Or maybe I am just taking too much fanon kool-aid or am biased, who knows.
@fictionlover96lol honestly, he simply had to walk to the crib and twist the toddler's neck. No fancy green fireworks needed but that's another quality of cartoon villains; they're so extra.
And thanks @salvyus for the addition to my points. I also don't really believe that Dumbeldore is solely to blame. I think he could have tried harder to steer this young man touched by darkness on the right path but Tom already showed his evil side as a kid with his treatment of the other children in the orphanage.
@naaga I agree and disagree with you there. The fact that lookism plays a huge part in Harry Potter can't be denied. Most evil or nasty characters are ugly and represented in a negative light and Voldemort is no exception with how he looked less human the more he lost of his soul (I see that as an allusion to Wilde's "The Portrait of Dorian Gray," except that in the novel the inner depravity of Dorian is reflected on his portrait).
I agree with you that there are realistic traits in Voldemort, it's just that to me they seem to disappear over time. For one, you mentioned his name to rid himself of his connection to his hated muggle father and that's all well and good so far but Voldemort? Taking on the name Slytherin or even Gaunt would make more sense. Voldemort as an anagram reminds me of a villain from a cartoon I used to watch, Baron Viled who, you guessed it, is the devil himself. Then there's his obsession with defeating Harry which reminds me of Gargamel from the Smurfs or even Team Rocket's insistence on catching Pikachu. Just keep accumulating power instead of chasing an infant.
With regards to Umbridge, I don't deny that she has cartoonish characteristics but as @kris mentioned, even Snape appeared like that in the first book but of course that was to fool the readers into thinking that he's a typical one-dimensional villain or a henchman doing his master's bidding. With Umbridge, would you believe me if I told you I know someone like her in real life? Fake sweet smile, clothes in colors that make your eyes almost bleed and schmoozing her way to the top? Ok, not the torturing children part but everything else is quite accurate.
Umbridge is not only a cartoon villain in hideous clothes. She was capable enough or schmoozed her way into being the Senior Undersecretary to the Minister for Magic, she was sent to Hogwarts by the Minister to prevent things from getting out of control and hush Voldemort's return and she was even made headmistress after Dumbledore was fired. She held a position of power during Fudge's rule and managed to keep it after the fall of the ministry. She is an opportunist who manages to stay above water in most situations. She isn't liked, but apparently liked by the right people who can place her in positions of power. She also sucks up to those superior to her but ruthlessly abuses her power with those who are inferior. Never seen a person who is almost ready to kiss the floor their boss walks on but treats the waiter who serves them like trash? That's Umbridge.
