Horcrux Creation?
Quote from JaySM on August 8, 2023, 7:49 pmRead this passage about Lily’s death being the catalyst that created the accidental horcrux with Harry. First of all, how awful is that. She unknowingly damned him just as she saved him. Secondly, wasn’t there supposed to be a whole process to creating a horcrux. One that even JK Rowling won’t even mention because it’s so disturbing? What happened with that?
Read this passage about Lily’s death being the catalyst that created the accidental horcrux with Harry. First of all, how awful is that. She unknowingly damned him just as she saved him. Secondly, wasn’t there supposed to be a whole process to creating a horcrux. One that even JK Rowling won’t even mention because it’s so disturbing? What happened with that?
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on August 8, 2023, 7:56 pmIt's mentioned that Voldemort's soul was so unstable at that point that it could break off a piece of itself. From what we see, main Voldemort can possess other living things and live as a parasitic entity, so it's possible that, due to the age of the new soul piece, it could be the most similar to main-Voldemort but without the sentience.
It's mentioned that Voldemort's soul was so unstable at that point that it could break off a piece of itself. From what we see, main Voldemort can possess other living things and live as a parasitic entity, so it's possible that, due to the age of the new soul piece, it could be the most similar to main-Voldemort but without the sentience.
Quote from JaySM on August 8, 2023, 8:17 pmQuote from The Gestalt Prince on August 8, 2023, 7:56 pmIt's mentioned that Voldemort's soul was so unstable at that point that it could break off a piece of itself. From what we see, main Voldemort can possess other living things and live as a parasitic entity, so it's possible that, due to the age of the new soul piece, it could be the most similar to main-Voldemort but without the sentience.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by the age of the new soul piece or how that would correlate with the process of creating a horcrux.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on August 8, 2023, 7:56 pmIt's mentioned that Voldemort's soul was so unstable at that point that it could break off a piece of itself. From what we see, main Voldemort can possess other living things and live as a parasitic entity, so it's possible that, due to the age of the new soul piece, it could be the most similar to main-Voldemort but without the sentience.
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by the age of the new soul piece or how that would correlate with the process of creating a horcrux.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on August 8, 2023, 8:45 pmFrom my perspective, each Horcrux more closely resembles the Voldemort of the time in which each was created.
- The diary is more similar to a mortal Tom Riddle than any of the other Horcruxes and has been separate from main-Voldemort the longest. The creation of that horcrux would have been at a point where main-Voldemort's soul was in its most stable state, meaning that Voldemort couldn't accidentally tear his soul apart as easily. In addition, this horcrux had very specific functions, such as Parseltongue, possession and manipulation, and showing memories. Of all the horcruxes, it is the oldest and has the most agency.
- The ring is largely unknown in terms of what we see, other than it was capable of inflicting a lethal curse on Dumbledore. However, this effect was placed there by design, and its effect relies on some degree of sentience and environmental awareness.
- The locket was designed to draw out the worst qualities and insecurities of those possessing it, which once again points to the intended functionality.
- The cup and diadem are also unexplored in terms of their functionality, but from what we see, they don't seem to do anything.
There's a notable pattern, with admittedly a few blindspots, of horcruxes becoming less complex over time, with only some degree of the owner's traits.
The Voldemort we see on the night of the Potter murders is a shell of his former self in terms of how much of his soul is left. That Voldemort, based on what happens later on, has the capacity of latching onto living things as a parasite, much as he does with the likes of Quirrel. As this shred of his soul is the most recent and, presumably, the least aware (acting only on instinct), it would act in self-preservation and seek out a life form to feed off of.
From my perspective, each Horcrux more closely resembles the Voldemort of the time in which each was created.
- The diary is more similar to a mortal Tom Riddle than any of the other Horcruxes and has been separate from main-Voldemort the longest. The creation of that horcrux would have been at a point where main-Voldemort's soul was in its most stable state, meaning that Voldemort couldn't accidentally tear his soul apart as easily. In addition, this horcrux had very specific functions, such as Parseltongue, possession and manipulation, and showing memories. Of all the horcruxes, it is the oldest and has the most agency.
- The ring is largely unknown in terms of what we see, other than it was capable of inflicting a lethal curse on Dumbledore. However, this effect was placed there by design, and its effect relies on some degree of sentience and environmental awareness.
- The locket was designed to draw out the worst qualities and insecurities of those possessing it, which once again points to the intended functionality.
- The cup and diadem are also unexplored in terms of their functionality, but from what we see, they don't seem to do anything.
There's a notable pattern, with admittedly a few blindspots, of horcruxes becoming less complex over time, with only some degree of the owner's traits.
The Voldemort we see on the night of the Potter murders is a shell of his former self in terms of how much of his soul is left. That Voldemort, based on what happens later on, has the capacity of latching onto living things as a parasite, much as he does with the likes of Quirrel. As this shred of his soul is the most recent and, presumably, the least aware (acting only on instinct), it would act in self-preservation and seek out a life form to feed off of.
Quote from JaySM on August 8, 2023, 9:05 pmQuote from The Gestalt Prince on August 8, 2023, 8:45 pmFrom my perspective, each Horcrux more closely resembles the Voldemort of the time in which each was created.
- The diary is more similar to a mortal Tom Riddle than any of the other Horcruxes and has been separate from main-Voldemort the longest. The creation of that horcrux would have been at a point where main-Voldemort's soul was in its most stable state, meaning that Voldemort couldn't accidentally tear his soul apart as easily. In addition, this horcrux had very specific functions, such as Parseltongue, possession and manipulation, and showing memories. Of all the horcruxes, it is the oldest and has the most agency.
- The ring is largely unknown in terms of what we see, other than it was capable of inflicting a lethal curse on Dumbledore. However, this effect was placed there by design, and its effect relies on some degree of sentience and environmental awareness.
- The locket was designed to draw out the worst qualities and insecurities of those possessing it, which once again points to the intended functionality.
- The cup and diadem are also unexplored in terms of their functionality, but from what we see, they don't seem to do anything.
There's a notable pattern, with admittedly a few blindspots, of horcruxes becoming less complex over time, with only some degree of the owner's traits.
The Voldemort we see on the night of the Potter murders is a shell of his former self in terms of how much of his soul is left. That Voldemort, based on what happens later on, has the capacity of latching onto living things as a parasite, much as he does with the likes of Quirrel. As this shred of his soul is the most recent and, presumably, the least aware (acting only on instinct), it would act in self-preservation and seek out a life form to feed off of.
I never thought of it this way. This is now my headcanon.
So when the killing curse rebounded, the soul, which was already torn from killing Lily, latched onto the only other living thing, Harry, because it was acting on instinct and self-preservation making whatever ritual that was usually required to make a horcrux unnecessary? Your theory about each horcrux having the likeness of Voldemort. I think that last one stemmed from Voldemort’s fear of death which may be why Harry’s acceptance of Death left him unscathed most of the time.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on August 8, 2023, 8:45 pmFrom my perspective, each Horcrux more closely resembles the Voldemort of the time in which each was created.
- The diary is more similar to a mortal Tom Riddle than any of the other Horcruxes and has been separate from main-Voldemort the longest. The creation of that horcrux would have been at a point where main-Voldemort's soul was in its most stable state, meaning that Voldemort couldn't accidentally tear his soul apart as easily. In addition, this horcrux had very specific functions, such as Parseltongue, possession and manipulation, and showing memories. Of all the horcruxes, it is the oldest and has the most agency.
- The ring is largely unknown in terms of what we see, other than it was capable of inflicting a lethal curse on Dumbledore. However, this effect was placed there by design, and its effect relies on some degree of sentience and environmental awareness.
- The locket was designed to draw out the worst qualities and insecurities of those possessing it, which once again points to the intended functionality.
- The cup and diadem are also unexplored in terms of their functionality, but from what we see, they don't seem to do anything.
There's a notable pattern, with admittedly a few blindspots, of horcruxes becoming less complex over time, with only some degree of the owner's traits.
The Voldemort we see on the night of the Potter murders is a shell of his former self in terms of how much of his soul is left. That Voldemort, based on what happens later on, has the capacity of latching onto living things as a parasite, much as he does with the likes of Quirrel. As this shred of his soul is the most recent and, presumably, the least aware (acting only on instinct), it would act in self-preservation and seek out a life form to feed off of.
I never thought of it this way. This is now my headcanon.
So when the killing curse rebounded, the soul, which was already torn from killing Lily, latched onto the only other living thing, Harry, because it was acting on instinct and self-preservation making whatever ritual that was usually required to make a horcrux unnecessary? Your theory about each horcrux having the likeness of Voldemort. I think that last one stemmed from Voldemort’s fear of death which may be why Harry’s acceptance of Death left him unscathed most of the time.
Quote from Naaga on August 9, 2023, 12:28 am@jaysm, @thegestaltprince has given a very good explanation for these events, I am only attaching Dumbledore's explaination of Harry the Horcrux taken from The Prince's Tale, DH.
‘Tell him that on the night Lord Voldemort tried to kill him, when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield, the Killing Curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort, and a fragment of Voldemort’s soul was blasted apart from the whole, and latched itself on to the only living soul left in that collapsing building. Part of Lord Voldemort lives inside Harry, and it is that which gives him the power of speech with snakes, and a connection with Lord Voldemort’s mind that he has never understood. And while that fragment of soul, unmissed by Voldemort, remains attached to, and protected by Harry, Lord Voldemort cannot die.’
Followed by explaination in King's Cross.
You were the seventh Horcrux, Harry, the Horcrux he never meant to make. He had rendered his soul so unstable that it broke apart when he committed those acts of unspeakable evil, the murder of your parents, the attempted killing of a child. But what escaped from that room was even less than he knew. He left more than his body behind. He left part of himself latched to you, the would-be victim who had survived.
@jaysm, @thegestaltprince has given a very good explanation for these events, I am only attaching Dumbledore's explaination of Harry the Horcrux taken from The Prince's Tale, DH.
‘Tell him that on the night Lord Voldemort tried to kill him, when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield, the Killing Curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort, and a fragment of Voldemort’s soul was blasted apart from the whole, and latched itself on to the only living soul left in that collapsing building. Part of Lord Voldemort lives inside Harry, and it is that which gives him the power of speech with snakes, and a connection with Lord Voldemort’s mind that he has never understood. And while that fragment of soul, unmissed by Voldemort, remains attached to, and protected by Harry, Lord Voldemort cannot die.’
Followed by explaination in King's Cross.
You were the seventh Horcrux, Harry, the Horcrux he never meant to make. He had rendered his soul so unstable that it broke apart when he committed those acts of unspeakable evil, the murder of your parents, the attempted killing of a child. But what escaped from that room was even less than he knew. He left more than his body behind. He left part of himself latched to you, the would-be victim who had survived.
Quote from JaySM on August 9, 2023, 1:27 am‘Tell him that on the night Lord Voldemort tried to kill him, when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield, the Killing Curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort, and a fragment of Voldemort’s soul was blasted apart from the whole, and latched itself on to the only living soul left in that collapsing building...”
This made it seem as if Lily’s death caused the curse he shot her with to rebound not Harry’s attempted murder. Is this just my English or is the wording weird?
‘Tell him that on the night Lord Voldemort tried to kill him, when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield, the Killing Curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort, and a fragment of Voldemort’s soul was blasted apart from the whole, and latched itself on to the only living soul left in that collapsing building...”
This made it seem as if Lily’s death caused the curse he shot her with to rebound not Harry’s attempted murder. Is this just my English or is the wording weird?
Quote from Naaga on August 9, 2023, 1:43 amQuote from JaySM on August 9, 2023, 1:27 am‘Tell him that on the night Lord Voldemort tried to kill him, when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield, the Killing Curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort, and a fragment of Voldemort’s soul was blasted apart from the whole, and latched itself on to the only living soul left in that collapsing building...”
This made it seem as if Lily’s death caused the curse he shot her with to rebound not Harry’s attempted murder. Is this just my English or is the wording weird?
I think he meant Lily's death casted the love protection for Harry, which caused rebound of Voldemort's killing curse.
But I agree that if reader wasn't familiar with whole backstory and reads only your mentioned paragraph, then it can be interpreted in the way you described.
Quote from JaySM on August 9, 2023, 1:27 am‘Tell him that on the night Lord Voldemort tried to kill him, when Lily cast her own life between them as a shield, the Killing Curse rebounded upon Lord Voldemort, and a fragment of Voldemort’s soul was blasted apart from the whole, and latched itself on to the only living soul left in that collapsing building...”
This made it seem as if Lily’s death caused the curse he shot her with to rebound not Harry’s attempted murder. Is this just my English or is the wording weird?
I think he meant Lily's death casted the love protection for Harry, which caused rebound of Voldemort's killing curse.
But I agree that if reader wasn't familiar with whole backstory and reads only your mentioned paragraph, then it can be interpreted in the way you described.