Meta: 'Debunking the Myth: James Attacked Severus for Noble Reasons', from Reddit
So he is judge,jury and executioner. Sad that this is what many people think today, yesterday and tomorrow.
I took what Lupin and Sirius told Harry as half truths. That there was more. I could not completely trust what they were saying. They never talked about Lily. I know in the movie Lupin mentioned Lily as an individual, but not in the books of what I can remember. I also wonder if they didn't talk about Lily, because it would also bring up Snape. I wonder if Dumbledore told Lupin and Sirius not to bring up the fact that Lily and Snape knew each other. Snape did ask Dumbledore to not let anyone know why he was doing what he was doing.
“Yeah,” said Harry, “but he just attacked Snape for no good reason*, just because — well, just because you said you were bored,” he finished with a slightly apologetic note in his voice.*
“I’m not proud of it,” said Sirius quickly.
I think Sirius is taking the bullet here for James, because James wanted to get Lily's attention.
Another thing I want to add that shows that James and Sirius were hexing for fun was Argus Flich records of punishment on wrongdoers. I don't think it was covered on this Meta, but I am not done reading yet so I can be wrong.
"James always suspected Snape harboured deeper feelings for Lily, which was a factor in James’ behaviour to Snape."
This is one of those quotes from JKR that gets my head spinning. So does that mean ever since Snape was 10? Because that is when I thought the bullying started. Was it right when Lily and Severus entered the cart and James thought that boy wants something more. Okay. I know she probably met when he was older, but James had started his bully right when he first met Severus. So there is another example that shows it wasn't about him being a future Death Eater, but more about being a Slytherin and poor.
I also don't see why it would be a competition for James if Severus harboured deeper feelings for Lily, unless he also suspected that Lily also harboured deeper feelings for Severus. In real life and fictional teenage trope, teenagers always have trouble declaring their feelings to their childhood best friend for fear of rejection and losing that familiar friendship and it ending or changing.
Dark Magic encompasses any form of offensive magic intended to hurt others, including milquetoast jinxes, hexes, and low-level curses. The Harry Potter Compendium also defines it similarly:
And someone said this.
“Ah, Evans, don’t make me hex you,” said James earnestly.
I went looking for the quote on the internet and found it on the board and like an idiot I started to reading the comments and Jily lovers who think this banter is so cute between Lily and James and he was just being cheeky. It is Lily "the lady doth protest too much, methinks".
What I think is he is testing his boundaries with Lily. Yes he is joking, but for me it is like a guy say. "Ah, Evans, don't make me slap you," said James earnestly.
I agree with you @iffin. James is judge jury and executioner. The truth is, the behavour of james only enhancing slytherin propaganda that muggles and blood traitor are menace to wizarding society. You cannot beat radicalization with vengeance and cruelty. You only can beat them by making you realize many blood traitor are doing right thing because they love humanity from muggles
Instead ,james and sirius hexing severus relentlesly (not me who saying it. It was in potter more of remus john lupin),make severus drank in pureblood propaganda that makes lily warning fall into deaf ears
Quote from luke on September 25, 2026, 9:46 amInstead ,james and sirius hexing severus relentlesly (not me who saying it. It was in potter more of remus john lupin),make severus drank in pureblood propaganda that makes lily warning fall into deaf ears
"relentlesly"
What you said got me thinking how Lily asks him why he is so obsessed with James and company. Severus says something about James isn't who people think he is. Severs never brings up about being constantly being bullied by James and Sirius or does Lily. Correct me if I miss something. We are told in the book by Sirius or Lupin (I don't remember which one) that Snape was a special case, so I'm thinking that when it came to picking on Snape they were sneakier. Filch didn't seem to have caught James and Sirius hexing Snape. So did the Staff not know it? Did Dumbledore first learn about it when Snape told him he was no longer going to teach Harry Occlumency? And told him why. Is that why Dumbledore didn't understand Snape's the extent of hate for James on the Mountain top (or whatever it was) and told him "you disgust me" and "It's Lily Potter". Did Lily not know and was surprised when James bullied Snape at the Lake.
Maybe I am forgetting something big, so just let me know. But if I didn't miss something, then this brings in a new element for me. Being bullied by James was something that Severus didn't want Lily to know and him not being able to defend himself just made him lose face. He was angry at them for bullying, angry at her for holding her laugh, angry at her for defending him and angry at himself for losing face when he had been trying to save it for so long. It was the 1970s and I imagine he heard Tobias voice say "Be a man".
Another thing I thought of, which I didn't want to think about was when I was bullied in middle school in the 1970s. I know most of us have been bullied. There were instances here and there but there were these two sisters who bullied me for around a year and 1/2. I didn't tell teachers and I didn't want to tell my parents. I didn't want to be labeled as a telltale and deal with more bullying or being made fun of from other people. And that time the teacher's job was to teach and they didn't look out for bullying unless it was an obvious fight in the hallway. To bring it back to Snape. I was thinking how I had this friend or acquaintance. She was a big tough looking girl. I remember being glad that she was around when those sisters were around, because they wouldn't even look my way. So I was thinking that maybe that was Severus thinking also. Besides Mulciber and Avery being house mates they also might have acted as shields for Severus at times. Severus is walking toward somewhere and sees James and looks around and sees Avery and turns and walks in that direction. I don't think he would like to admit this to Lily. I also don't understand why he didn't just tell her. They are housemates.
Okay these are my ramblings.
I am so sorry you were bullied in middle school : (
Re: did Dumbledore and Lily know? Telling myself that they didn't know is the only way I can still like them as characters.
Quote from Shell Cottage on September 25, 2026, 4:31 pmI am so sorry you were bullied in middle school : (
Re: did Dumbledore and Lily know? Telling myself that they didn't know is the only way I can still like them as characters.
Thanks. It was so long ago and I just brought it up, because I just thought of why Snape didn't want to give up Avery and Mulciber.
did Dumbledore and Lily know?
What I remember is that Snape just complained about how arrogant James was and compared Harry to him. Quirrell's said they loathed each other. Nothing about James bullying Snape. Dumbledore told Harry that it was pretty much like him and Draco. So maybe we have to look at Harry and Draco and see what Dumbledore saw. Draco seemed jealous of Harry's popularity and the status of The Boy Who Lived. I am still thinking about this and the only thing we have in the books about Lily's point of view is in the Prince's tale and I don't recall anything about her mentioning James and company bulling Snape.
And maybe Snape did want to get them expelled and that is why he followed them to the shack. He wanted to go to Hogwarts to learn not to fight bullies. Also at the lake scene James called Snape's name and I believe Snape was the first to draw his wand. We know why hid did it, but to onlookers it might have looked like Snape was starting it and James and Sirius were putting a stop to it. I am thinking this, because I am wondering if they were called into Dumbledore's office and what they would tell him. Also if Snape was called in what would he say. I think he would be so upset because of Lily that he wouldn't be able to keep things straight.
Still thinking and rambling. And wondering what others opinions are.
Adding more because my brain won't shut up. Three things I was thinking, in my experience,a bully often bullies in private (being tripped in an empty hall), or quietly(sitting next to you calling you things or doing something to your person when no one is seeing) so it is a he said she said thing and people being bullied often keep quiet because of the repercussions. Repercussions can be gossiping about, the bully increasing their bully and other things I can't think of now.
Before we got Snape's memories in the Prince's tale many of us thought he got the name "Snivellus" because they saw him crying. But it was on the first day that James and Sirius met Snape that they called him that. It showed that if they didn't like you that they would talk shit about you. Also all those other pranks that James and Sirius did in public to others, which made some others laugh seemed to be random. A person is at the wrong place at the wrong time. I believe that no one's name came up twice that James and Sirius had hexed them on Flint's records. I could be wrong. So I think Snape was the only one they continually bullied on a regular basis.
As for Snape telling his parents. I imagine him telling Eileen and Tobias and they go up to Hogwarts and all the parents meet. There would be a lot of "not my boy". Then they would get all the boys together and they would all agree to get along. James with the biggest smile. Before they leave Tobias makes sure that Eileen invites both James and Sirius for tea next Saturday afternoon. He tells her to make sure that she asks them in front of the old man (Dumbledore). James and Sirius agree but as the Snape's leave they roll their eyes, but they show up because they said they would do it in front of Dumbldore. As they are walking up to the Snape's door they are looking around laughing making remarks about the Snape's living situation. All of sudden Tobias seems to pop up in back them. He says. "Hi boys." They are startled and say hi back. He tells them he has something to show them out back. He gestures to them to lead the way. He points toward a shed. " Nothing bad. Just something. I'm working on Go on open it." They open it and see it is a double seated outhouse. They look at him. "I just thought you might need to relieve yourself before tea." They relax. "No. Sir." Tobias nods his head and his expression changes to one that makes their heat jump. They are ready to run but he grabs them both by their shirt collars and drags them into the out house and puts one head in each hole. He is now holding them with their hair. Cussing them out. Sometimes he brings them up at the same time. Sometimes one at a time. At this point James has lost his glass. It has only been a few minutes but they swear it could have been a few hours. Tobias finally pulls them up by the collar again and throws them out of the outhouse. As they get up he gets hold of them again and says, " If I hear that you are touching my son, talking to my son or using your wand against my son. I'll kill you." They nod their heads. Tobias then says," You noticed how you didn't hear me when you were at the front door." They nod again. "Well it's that witch hunter gene in me, so your spells don't work on me." He lets them loose and gives them both a switch kick in the ass.
I think this was inspired by The Godfather movies and all the detective noir movies from the 30s and 40s I watched.
