Prejudice about Snape's skin color
I sometimes see speculation that Snape is half-Asian, and the reason such writing is used is because of the expression 'sallow skin'. To be honest, I think that makes me uncomfortable. Even though there are many Asians with light or dark skin color.
if read Half-Blood Prince, in the photo of Eileen Prince when she was 15, Harry describes Eileen's face as pale.
The next time it says "sallow skin" it says "sallow skin" at King's Cross Station.
No matter how you look at this, it seems to mean that Eileen and Snape's skin color was not originally 'Sallow skin', but rather that their facial complexions deteriorated due to poor health.
And “Sallow skin” means unhealthy skin. If you just search, you won't find any Asian faces, only the faces of sick people.
And looking at Snape's body, you can see that his legs were pale when he was in school.
In fact, while working at the hospital, saw many 'Sallow skin' patients, whose entire body was very pale and white but whose complexion was dark.
I think it's related to health issues in some way, but I don't know why some people see it as a race or skin color issue.
Where have you seen people referring to Snape as Asian? That's weird, especially if they're conflating it with his skin color.
By all appearances, Snape is a Caucasian man of European descent who lives in a northern climate. It's safe to assume that like many with those genetics, both he and his mother were naturally fair skinned. Given that context, his skin being described as "sallow" likely has nothing to do with poor or deteriorating health. Most white folks look sallow when we don't get enough sunlight, and we're talking about a man who spends most of his time in a dungeon way up in the Scottish Highlands. 😂
https://severusdefender.tumblr.com/post/664173176425791488/snape-s-skin-is-described-as-sallow-i-know-some There are posts like this that assume he is also seen as a person of color. I sometimes see fanfiction where Snape is half-Asian. Honestly, I don't mind the fact that Snape is half-Asian. However, I don't feel good about assuming that Snape is Asian simply because he has a shallow skin complexion. In Korean fanfiction, even if Snape is Asian, foreigners still do that based on skin color...
Asians with light skin, Europeans with red and dark skin, Africans with light skin, Indians with skin that is darker than that of black people... There are really a lot of people like this.
There is a lot of fan art where Harry and Hermione are people of color, regardless of their skin color.
I have no complaints at all about fanfiction and fanart of people of color created without such prejudice. Such fan art is cool and good.
I see what you're saying, and I agree that making him half-Asian based on that criteria (sallow skin) is insulting. Unfortunately, things like that tend to happen when people spend too much time obsessing over diversity. They're so busy trying to turn characters into people of color (or LGBTQ+ or neurodivergent or whatever) that they often use shitty, stereotypical, or downright prejudicial reasons for doing so. It's the same thing as claiming that Hermione was black because she had bushy hair, or suggesting that a male character is trans because he's not 100% stereotypically masculine. It's stupid and lazy, shallow virtue signaling without substance.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's bad to change things up when it comes to fictional characters. I'm just saying people should be more thoughtful about it/respectful to the demographic they're trying to represent. For example, there are plenty of ways one could make Snape half-Asian that have nothing to do with skin color.
Something about horseshoe theory would be my guess. When you become so self-righteous, you don't realize your own prejudice. Severus is a caucasian man and that's how Rowling made most characters in her story. Aside from the egregious issue with the name "Cho Chang" which might have been either out of ignorance or perhaps she found it funny, I don't really know.
But what do I know, I am just an old-fashioned person who might have silly ideas. And I find it pretty ironic when people try to adjust stuff for modern sensibilities but tend to miss their mark quite badly and it still comes across as insensitive if you're someone not in their echo chamber and are an outsider.
100% agreed, Sam!
Severus is a caucasian man and that's how Rowling made most characters in her story.
This is about demographics, not racism, no matter how much modern day nitpickers try to pretend otherwise. I suspect most of them are too young to remember what the world was like 30 years ago, but it's worth pointing out that the UK was overwhelmingly Caucasian. Statistics bear this out… according to census data, nearly 95% of respondents identified as white.
In other words, the demographics in the series are a fair/accurate representation. In fact, JKR's inclusion of Kingsley Shacklebolt, the Patel twins, and Cho Chang, all characters of color, is notable for that time. Countless books that were written/set before say, 2010, don't include any racial diversity.
I think it's unfair to hold authors to standards that simply didn't exist when their work was published. That's especially true for JKR, who made more of an effort to be inclusive than was typical for that time. Sure, people can complain about Cho Chang, but it's worth pointing out that Asian characters were rare in Western literature. So, do we nitpick over a naming mistake? Or do we give her credit for trying, however imperfectly, to include such a character?
Personally, I find the Cho Chang name debate a bit silly. I mean, we're talking about a universe filled with unusual names, many of which would be more or less unheard of in the Muggle world. Cho Chang wouldn't be a plausible name for a Chinese person? Okay, well, how many British Muggles are wandering around with surnames like Dumbledore and Shacklebolt? 😂
If you wanted to give JKR the benefit of the doubt, you could easily assume that Cho's name had a magical origin. Failing that, you could chalk it up to an honest mistake, which is almost certainly what it was.
The problem is, we live in a culture where people want to be offended. They look for the worst possible motive rather than giving others the benefit of the doubt, and ignorance (something we're all guilty of in one way or another) is a crime.
To reiterate what I said in my earlier post, I don't think there's anything wrong with changing up the characters. If you think it would be interesting to write an Asian Snape or say, a black Harry, by all means, knock yourself out! It only becomes a problem when people are assholes about it, whether that's falling back on shallow, negative stereotypes or shitting on canon for not being more diverse.
Quote from Heatherlly on March 13, 2024, 3:42 amIn other words, the demographics in the series are a fair/accurate representation. In fact, JKR's inclusion of Kingsley Shacklebolt, the Patel twins, and Cho Chang, all characters of color, is notable for that time. Countless books that were written/set before say, 2010, don't include any racial diversity.
Yeah, and the books took place during the 90s. You look at the odds of Snape being anything but white British back in 1960 (1959 if you take conception into account), and it's probably gonna be pretty low by comparison.
Quote from Heatherlly on March 13, 2024, 3:42 am100% agreed, Sam!
Severus is a caucasian man and that's how Rowling made most characters in her story.
This is about demographics, not racism, no matter how much modern day nitpickers try to pretend otherwise. I suspect most of them are too young to remember what the world was like 30 years ago, but it's worth pointing out that the UK was overwhelmingly Caucasian. Statistics bear this out… according to census data, nearly 95% of respondents identified as white.
In other words, the demographics in the series are a fair/accurate representation. In fact, JKR's inclusion of Kingsley Shacklebolt, the Patel twins, and Cho Chang, all characters of color, is notable for that time. Countless books that were written/set before say, 2010, don't include any racial diversity.
I think it's unfair to hold authors to standards that simply didn't exist when their work was published. That's especially true for JKR, who made more of an effort to be inclusive than was typical for that time. Sure, people can complain about Cho Chang, but it's worth pointing out that Asian characters were rare in Western literature. So, do we nitpick over a naming mistake? Or do we give her credit for trying, however imperfectly, to include such a character?
Personally, I find the Cho Chang name debate a bit silly. I mean, we're talking about a universe filled with unusual names, many of which would be more or less unheard of in the Muggle world. Cho Chang wouldn't be a plausible name for a Chinese person? Okay, well, how many British Muggles are wandering around with surnames like Dumbledore and Shacklebolt? 😂
If you wanted to give JKR the benefit of the doubt, you could easily assume that Cho's name had a magical origin. Failing that, you could chalk it up to an honest mistake, which is almost certainly what it was.
The problem is, we live in a culture where people want to be offended. They look for the worst possible motive rather than giving others the benefit of the doubt, and ignorance (something we're all guilty of in one way or another) is a crime.
To reiterate what I said in my earlier post, I don't think there's anything wrong with changing up the characters. If you think it would be interesting to write an Asian Snape or say, a black Harry, by all means, knock yourself out! It only becomes a problem when people are assholes about it, whether that's falling back on shallow, negative stereotypes or shitting on canon for not being more diverse.
'Cho Chang' Her name is problematic because it has a derogatory Chinese pronunciation, 'Ching Chang Chong', but the name has another problem.
蝶 < Cho This is the Chinese character for her name, but it is read as 'dié' in real Chinese. The meaning of 蝶 is ‘butterfly’, so it is a name with a pretty meaning, but it is a big problem that she, who is of Chinese descent, has a ‘Japanese-style kanji-pronounced name’.
In other countries, an Italian may have a German name or an English person may have a French name. In Harry Potter, a British person can have an ancient Greek or Roman name. In foreign countries, the barrier to names will be low.
However, the Chinese character cultures of Korea, Japan, and China are different. You can use the same Chinese character name, but the ‘reading and pronunciation’ are completely different. The analogy and actual pronunciation of the name Michael are incredibly different compared to Archangel Michael/Michaël or the name Miguel in Spain. In particular, there is absolutely no reason for Chinese people to use Japanese-style kanji pronunciation. Because the country where Chinese characters originate is China.
Additionally, China and Korea were ravaged by Japan in the 20th century. So, when 'Cho' name came up, there were more than one problem. When it comes to names, the natural thing to do is to use a different country's pronunciation. but In some places, it may not be natural or acceptable.
JK Rowling said that collecting strange names was her hobby, and she applied the culture of using strange names to her worldview, but I think it's a shame that she didn't think much about what names mean in other countries.
It's just the way it is. Not really much that can be done about it. My grievances regarding depictions of Asians are completely different but I feel that nothing will ever change. As for this particular case, I think it might be out of ignorance rather than malice on Rowling's part or I could be wrong lol.
As for representation, it will always be the same old shit. Just with different glitter sprinkled on it and gullible people would eat it like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Self-righteous people will always try to shoehorn in whatever they feel like, while completely disregarding their own subconscious biases and prejudices which is admittedly more harmful than not doing anything in the first place. I would rather have no representation than a blatantly disingenuous one.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on March 13, 2024, 3:51 amYeah, and the books took place during the 90s. You look at the odds of Snape being anything but white British back in 1960 (1959 if you take conception into account), and it's probably gonna be pretty low by comparison.
I wasn't able to pull up data specifically for 1959-60, but 1950 would be very close in terms of demographics.
It is estimated that in 1950 there were no more than 20,000 non-white residents in the United Kingdom, almost all having been born outside the UK and now mainly residing in England. (source)
The overall English population at that time was 50 million, which means that more than 99.9% were white. To put it differently, the odds of Severus being a person of color are roughly 2500 to 1.
That's a longshot at best, but it becomes even more improbable when you look at other factors. The fact that nearly all POC residents were born outside of the UK is a big one, suggesting that one or both of Severus's parents would have to be first generation immigrants, and relatively recent ones at that (post World War II).
We know that can't be true for Eileen, who attended Hogwarts (and thus lived in the UK) when she was a child. Even if we assume she was very young when she gave birth to Severus (say, 18) she lived/attended school in the UK during a time when immigration (especially nonwhite) was virtually nonexistent.
Meanwhile, you have Tobias,, a working-class Muggle with a Judeo-Christian first name and English surname. "Tobias" is actually Hebrew in origin, though the possibility that he was Jewish is negligible at best. Either way, that wouldn't make Severus Jewish, as that is conferred through the maternal line.
Eileen is a girl-given name and anglicized version of the Gaelic "Eibhlin" and "Aibhlin," meaning "little bird," "strength," and "desired." Eileen also derives from the French word "Aveline," meaning "hazelnut." (source)
That's about British as you can get, even when you factor in the French interpretation. It's worth noting that these cultures (while very different) have had close ties throughout history, not to mention a great deal of shared ancestry. It's also worth noting that "Prince" is predominantly rooted in English and French origins, though there is a Slavic connection. The latter could make it plausible that Severus has some Eastern European ancestry, something that would also be compatible with his appearance if one wishes to go that route.
In conclusion, there's nothing to support him being a person of color, either in canon or the real world. Of course, there's nothing wrong with creating an AU version for the sake of representation or wish fulfillment, but I think it's important to recognize the difference and avoid using canon as a primary source. That version of Severus clearly wasn't meant to be ethnically diverse, so there isn't much to draw on aside from surface level descriptions (sallow skin, big nose). Twisting these into negative stereotypes is unfair (not to mention lazy as hell).
