Snape in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Quote from mmlf on September 19, 2022, 1:49 pmProfessor Severus Snape appears in the third installment of the Harry Potter series, thwarted in his aim to become Defence Against the Dark Arts professor by none other than Professor Remus Lupin. But he has a secret goal: to seek revenge on Sirius Black, the man he believes betrayed Lily Potter to Lord Voldemort-- and who also tormented him at school.
In this thread, you can discuss anything related to Professor Snape in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban: scenes, characterisation, things we ought to have seen/known, headcanons, and anything else you like!
Professor Severus Snape appears in the third installment of the Harry Potter series, thwarted in his aim to become Defence Against the Dark Arts professor by none other than Professor Remus Lupin. But he has a secret goal: to seek revenge on Sirius Black, the man he believes betrayed Lily Potter to Lord Voldemort-- and who also tormented him at school.
In this thread, you can discuss anything related to Professor Snape in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban: scenes, characterisation, things we ought to have seen/known, headcanons, and anything else you like!
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 28, 2022, 9:58 pmI don't know how popular this is gonna be, but I'll say it: Snape was 100% justified in outing Lupin as a werewolf, not only by hinting at it while substituting for him, but also when alerting the Ministry. Lupin was a werewolf working at a school for children, and he posed a very real danger to students and staff alike; this isn't even including the fact that Snape made the Wolfsbane Potion for Lupin as a form of insurance that the latter wouldn't go on a rampage, and the mf chose not to drink it on the very night of the full moon.
I don't know how popular this is gonna be, but I'll say it: Snape was 100% justified in outing Lupin as a werewolf, not only by hinting at it while substituting for him, but also when alerting the Ministry. Lupin was a werewolf working at a school for children, and he posed a very real danger to students and staff alike; this isn't even including the fact that Snape made the Wolfsbane Potion for Lupin as a form of insurance that the latter wouldn't go on a rampage, and the mf chose not to drink it on the very night of the full moon.
Quote from Heatherlly on November 29, 2022, 4:52 amOh, I'm right there with you. Even if we ignore Severus's (100% understandable) werewolf PTSD, his primary responsibility was to protect the students. If he recognized Lupin as a potential threat, he had every right to try and mitigate that however he could. His fears were also vindicated, IMO, considering that Lupin did forget to take the potion. I know there were reasons for that, but those reasons are irrelevant. He still could've killed someone, quite possibly an innocent student.
Oh, I'm right there with you. Even if we ignore Severus's (100% understandable) werewolf PTSD, his primary responsibility was to protect the students. If he recognized Lupin as a potential threat, he had every right to try and mitigate that however he could. His fears were also vindicated, IMO, considering that Lupin did forget to take the potion. I know there were reasons for that, but those reasons are irrelevant. He still could've killed someone, quite possibly an innocent student.
Quote from mmlf on November 29, 2022, 1:52 pmQuote from The Gestalt Prince on November 28, 2022, 9:58 pmI don't know how popular this is gonna be, but I'll say it: Snape was 100% justified in outing Lupin as a werewolf, not only by hinting at it while substituting for him, but also when alerting the Ministry. Lupin was a werewolf working at a school for children, and he posed a very real danger to students and staff alike; this isn't even including the fact that Snape made the Wolfsbane Potion for Lupin as a form of insurance that the latter wouldn't go on a rampage, and the mf chose not to drink it on the very night of the full moon.
You're tempting me to reread Book Three and see whether I agree with this, as I remember having strong feelings either way about Severus Snape at the end. (I think the last time I read it was in 2019.) I don't remember liking how he had exposed Professor Lupin. I do remember understanding his total devastation as all the rewards he was promised by the Ministry were rescinded. I even remember writing a drabble on it, as well as a whole bunch of notes on Professor Lupin and related events. Certainly, Snape's desperation to be the hero and get some recognition for his protection of Hogwarts made a huge impression on me, so I will have to see how I feel about his actions in the latter half of the book again.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 28, 2022, 9:58 pmI don't know how popular this is gonna be, but I'll say it: Snape was 100% justified in outing Lupin as a werewolf, not only by hinting at it while substituting for him, but also when alerting the Ministry. Lupin was a werewolf working at a school for children, and he posed a very real danger to students and staff alike; this isn't even including the fact that Snape made the Wolfsbane Potion for Lupin as a form of insurance that the latter wouldn't go on a rampage, and the mf chose not to drink it on the very night of the full moon.
You're tempting me to reread Book Three and see whether I agree with this, as I remember having strong feelings either way about Severus Snape at the end. (I think the last time I read it was in 2019.) I don't remember liking how he had exposed Professor Lupin. I do remember understanding his total devastation as all the rewards he was promised by the Ministry were rescinded. I even remember writing a drabble on it, as well as a whole bunch of notes on Professor Lupin and related events. Certainly, Snape's desperation to be the hero and get some recognition for his protection of Hogwarts made a huge impression on me, so I will have to see how I feel about his actions in the latter half of the book again.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 29, 2022, 5:25 pmI think his mentality regarding his awards affected his decision-making for sure, so I can totally see there being some spite mixed in. But for the most part when it comes to Lupin, Severus's overall dislike of Lupin is justified as well, at least the parts that I know for certain.
- Lupin was friends with James and Sirius (and Peter), and he was complicit in making Severus's life miserable(r). This is including the werewolf incident; while Lupin had no control during the full moon, the fact that other people discovered his secret, and the fact that Sirius tricked Severus into going down the tunnel on the night of the full moon, tells me that Lupin didn't take more precautions (or at least didn't inform Dumbledore).
- Lupin undermines Severus's authority during the boggart lesson by making him the laughingstock of the class (granted, Neville's boggart was Severus, so he had to make do).
- Lupin flat-out lies to Severus about the nature of the Map despite it being a highly-invasive surveillance device. I think both of those would warrant some disciplinary action via Dumbledore, but as that didn't happen on-page, I have to assume that nothing was done until Severus acted.
I think his mentality regarding his awards affected his decision-making for sure, so I can totally see there being some spite mixed in. But for the most part when it comes to Lupin, Severus's overall dislike of Lupin is justified as well, at least the parts that I know for certain.
- Lupin was friends with James and Sirius (and Peter), and he was complicit in making Severus's life miserable(r). This is including the werewolf incident; while Lupin had no control during the full moon, the fact that other people discovered his secret, and the fact that Sirius tricked Severus into going down the tunnel on the night of the full moon, tells me that Lupin didn't take more precautions (or at least didn't inform Dumbledore).
- Lupin undermines Severus's authority during the boggart lesson by making him the laughingstock of the class (granted, Neville's boggart was Severus, so he had to make do).
- Lupin flat-out lies to Severus about the nature of the Map despite it being a highly-invasive surveillance device. I think both of those would warrant some disciplinary action via Dumbledore, but as that didn't happen on-page, I have to assume that nothing was done until Severus acted.
Quote from Heatherlly on November 29, 2022, 6:27 pmAgreed, and on the first point, I think Lupin's behavior after the fact is significant. He chose to remain friends with Sirius, someone who nearly killed another student. Not just any student, but one that Lupin knew James and Sirius had been victimizing for years. And then, to top it all off, Sirius used Lupin himself to do it. He could've turned his friend into a murderer, which could've easily landed him in Azkaban. At the very least, he would've had to live with the guilt, something that would've haunted him for the rest of his life.
In short, Lupin is a coward. He was too much of a coward to stand up to his friends, letting them get away with terrible things even when he was one of their victims. To make matters worse, his cowardice is motivated by self-interest… nothing is more important to him than staying in James and Sirius's good graces.
I know he was just a teenager, and I understand why he craved acceptance. But his willingness to turn a blind eye is still a massive flaw, one that persisted into adulthood.
I personally think that flaw is the primary reason why Severus dislikes/distrusts him. Severus doesn't take too kindly to cowards as a rule, but in this case, he's keenly aware of the repercussions. He knows Lupin's history, and (like it or not) that history includes some pretty dark shit. Is it really unfair or unreasonable that that colors his perceptions/actions?
Agreed, and on the first point, I think Lupin's behavior after the fact is significant. He chose to remain friends with Sirius, someone who nearly killed another student. Not just any student, but one that Lupin knew James and Sirius had been victimizing for years. And then, to top it all off, Sirius used Lupin himself to do it. He could've turned his friend into a murderer, which could've easily landed him in Azkaban. At the very least, he would've had to live with the guilt, something that would've haunted him for the rest of his life.
In short, Lupin is a coward. He was too much of a coward to stand up to his friends, letting them get away with terrible things even when he was one of their victims. To make matters worse, his cowardice is motivated by self-interest… nothing is more important to him than staying in James and Sirius's good graces.
I know he was just a teenager, and I understand why he craved acceptance. But his willingness to turn a blind eye is still a massive flaw, one that persisted into adulthood.
I personally think that flaw is the primary reason why Severus dislikes/distrusts him. Severus doesn't take too kindly to cowards as a rule, but in this case, he's keenly aware of the repercussions. He knows Lupin's history, and (like it or not) that history includes some pretty dark shit. Is it really unfair or unreasonable that that colors his perceptions/actions?