The Character of Lily Evans

#1 · November 29, 2022, 3:47 pm

Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 29, 2022, 3:47 pm
Before I begin, I'm 99% Team Snily (1% Team Snonely), and Lily is my favorite female character in the books.

Lily Evans doesn't get too much characterization outside of The Prince's Tale and things said about her in passing. The memories we see of her, or what I can remember, are the following (this is in chronological order):

The Playground (pre-Hogwarts)

She isn't afraid of getting caught doing magic things (she's a child, but I'm just listing everything, regardless of age; this is going to happen a lot).

She doesn't take crap from people, such as when she thinks Severus is calling her a mean name and proceeds to tell him off and walk away .

The Trees by the River (pre-Hogwarts)

She's curious about magic and the wizarding world, which seems to be the catalyst of her relationship with Severus.

She starts to realize that using magic in front of Muggles is illegal, and she fears punishment.

She wants to know about Severus's life, but will change the topic when she thinks he's not comfortable with it.

She's insecure about her status as a Muggle-born and seeks validation from someone she perceives as a member of the wizarding world (Severus).

She is quick to blame Severus when she perceives he has done something wrong, which would be the branch falling on Petunia; I can make an argument that he isn't to blame, as it's accidental magic, but the point stands.

The Hogwarts Express (1971)

When called a mean name, she brings up the letter she and Severus found in a vengeful manner.

She doesn't respect her sister's privacy, and even allows other people to snoop with her. When called out, she goes on the defensive and places emphasis on Severus rather than herself.

After fighting with her sister, she is deeply upset that Petunia hates her.

She is intolerant of how James and Sirius treat Severus and takes the initiative to lead her friend out of the compartment.

The Sorting (1971)

She clearly has enough Gryffindor traits to be sorted into Gryffindor, although she expresses a bit of sadness that she may not be in the same house as Severus.

The Werewolf Incident (1975)

She doesn't understand how Severus can be friends with some of the other boys in Slytherin; we don't know how long this friendship has lasted, but it's possible this isn't the first time this has been brought up. There are two main things with this, which are seemingly contradictory:

If this has been going on for a long time, then Lily has been too tolerant of Severus. She would be within her right to end their friendship considering what Mulciber is said to have done (a later point).

In this conversation, we don't see Lily trying to understand why Severus would choose to be friends with them. She says she doesn't understand, but she doesn't say she wants to.

She has clear animosity towards Dark Magic, and this is the primary reason she gives Severus as to why she doesn't like Avery or Mulciber.

She is dismissive of Severus's concerns regarding Remus and the fact that the Marauders sneak out at night, even though she seems to know about his theory.

"They don't use Dark Magic, though." There are a few things with this line that bother me:

Assuming this is the case, then Dark Magic seems to be more of a concern for Lily than the fact that they've been relentlessly bullying (according to Remus's entry on the Wizarding World) her best friend for the past four years. Granted, she still doesn't like them, but to use this as an argument means nothing. Dark Magic doesn't make bullying any better or worse.

There is evidence to suggest that the Marauders use Dark Magic. In fact, I am 100% certain that everyone uses Dark Magic.

Dark Magic, or dark charms specifically, are divided into three categories of increasing severity: jinxes, hexes, and curses. James and Sirius were known to randomly hex students in the halls (according to Sirius and Remus when Harry confronts them). This information is in the first-year curriculum. We're told that Lily had quite a bit of talent in Charms class, so while it's possible that she didn't pay attention to the lesson on dark charms, it's very unlikely.

We have documented evidence via Harry's detention in HBP that they used an illegal hex on Bertram Aubrey that caused his head to swell up.

And this isn't touching Snape's Worst Memory (we'll get to that).

She mentions having heard about the incident in the tunnel under the Whomping Willow, specifically that James saved Severus. This interaction implies that this is the first time they've talked about this issue, and we see that she makes not effort to ask Severus for his side of the story; instead, she tells him he should be grateful. Given the nature of the incident, it's very possible that only Severus, Sirius, and James know what happened (Peter might have been told, but we don't know how aware Remus was), and as Severus was sworn to secrecy, this means that either James or Sirius started spreading the tale. If this is the case, then Lily is quick to believe Severus's abusers over Severus.

Snape's Worst Memory (1976)

She comes to Severus's defense and tries to de-escalate the situation without magic; however, the situation has already become violent, which she realizes when they continue to attack Severus and proceeds to draw her wand.

This is related to the above section on Dark Magic. I'm going to list every single charm, in order, that was cast:

James: Disarming Charm, Impediment Jinx, Scouring Charm

Severus: unknown cutting charm, not likely to be Sectumsempra due to no mention of the cut being cursed.

James: Dangling Jinx

Sirius: Full Body-Bind Curse

James: counter-curse, Dangling Jinx

This may seem petty, but it's present, and I have to address it: the mouth twitch. From Harry's perspective, she looks as if she was about to smile. I understand that people react differently to situations, but this has always bothered me. But to be fair, I'll see how many explanations I can think of (this is assuming it was an almost-smile):

She was responding to seeing Severus's pants, but then corrected herself. This is the least charitable interpretation, but it's possible if her relationship with Severus had deteriorated.

She was responding to James being angry at Severus for cutting him. This is the most charitable interpretation, although not one I have seen presented.

She doesn't talk to Severus at all during the interaction, until he calls her a Mudblood, after which she proceeds to humiliate him in front of the crowd by calling him Snivellus and drawing attention to the possibility that his pants are dirty. She then leaves Severus while he is still vulnerable to attack from James and Sirius, which ultimately happens. This follows a pattern:

Severus calls her a witch; she is offended and walks away.

Petunia calls her a freak; she brings up the letter.

Severus calls her a Mudblood; she joins in on humiliating him and then walks away.

She is sensitive to name-calling; however, unlike the other instances where she gets emotional, her reaction is cold and detached.

She tells James that he and his friends are just as bad as Severus, implying that she hates both sides equally.

Outside the Gryffindor Tower (1976)

She refuses to listen to his apology (I don't blame her; the wound is still fresh); the only reason she comes out to talk to him is because Mary tells her Severus has promised to sleep outside for the entire night until Lily comes to see him.

She tells him she's been making excuses for him for years.

She calls him out for calling other Muggle-borns Mudbloods, and asks how she's any different. This is interesting, because if she knew he was doing this prior to the incident, why wouldn't she confront him about it and call him out sooner? She doesn't say anything until after she herself has been slighted.

James (1977)

She agrees to go out with James in seventh-year, and they eventually start officially dating. According to Petunia's (or the Dursleys') entry on the Wizarding World, as well as the wiki, Lily and James go on a double date with Petunia and Vernon. Vernon and James butt heads, and Vernon and Petunia leave; Lily is upset, and James tries to comfort her. A few things:

This date occurs prior to Petunia and Vernon getting married; they were married and living together at 4 Privet Drive at the end of '77. Let's say that the Dursleys moved in at the latest possible date (31 December). This means that within four months, from 1 September to 31 December, Lily and James were close enough to go on dinner dates with Petunia and Vernon, even if it was botched.

Let's assume that the above date was very close to Lily and James officially starting to date. This would mean that it took James 1 1/2 years from Snape's Worst Memory to convince Lily to date him. Keep in mind that this is taking the previous five years of bullying into account.

Let me put it this way: if I was friends with a girl for maybe seven years, and she was being bullied for five of those years, I would never even consider socializing with the bully, let alone date her. Even if I had a bad falling out with my friend, and the other girl started improving.

She is willing to overlook James's past behavior and give him a chance, but not the same with Severus. Granted, Severus had plenty of chances in the past to avoid what happened between them, but Lily's way of trying to steer him away from that was fairly antagonistic. This could be realistic if we take Sirius's word that she didn't hate James as much as she appeared to in that memory.

The Potter Murders (1981)

She doesn't trust Dumbledore enough to question James's decision to use Sirius as the Secret Keeper, assuming she didn't also choose Sirius.

She doesn't trust Remus enough to question Sirius's assessment of him.

She deeply loves her son, to the point where, despite desperate and fearing for her life, she refuses to step aside so that Voldemort can kill him. This love for her son persists after death, when she is seen through the Resurrection Stone.

If I've missed anything, let me know. This is about as much as I can think of.

Before I begin, I'm 99% Team Snily (1% Team Snonely), and Lily is my favorite female character in the books.

Lily Evans doesn't get too much characterization outside of The Prince's Tale and things said about her in passing. The memories we see of her, or what I can remember, are the following (this is in chronological order):

The Playground (pre-Hogwarts)
1. She isn't afraid of getting caught doing magic things (she's a child, but I'm just listing everything, regardless of age; this is going to happen a lot).
2. She doesn't take crap from people, such as when she thinks Severus is calling her a mean name and proceeds to tell him off and walk away .
The Trees by the River (pre-Hogwarts)
1. She's curious about magic and the wizarding world, which seems to be the catalyst of her relationship with Severus.
2. She starts to realize that using magic in front of Muggles is illegal, and she fears punishment.
3. She wants to know about Severus's life, but will change the topic when she thinks he's not comfortable with it.
4. She's insecure about her status as a Muggle-born and seeks validation from someone she perceives as a member of the wizarding world (Severus).
5. She is quick to blame Severus when she perceives he has done something wrong, which would be the branch falling on Petunia; I can make an argument that he isn't to blame, as it's accidental magic, but the point stands.
The Hogwarts Express (1971)
1. When called a mean name, she brings up the letter she and Severus found in a vengeful manner.
2. She doesn't respect her sister's privacy, and even allows other people to snoop with her. When called out, she goes on the defensive and places emphasis on Severus rather than herself.
3. After fighting with her sister, she is deeply upset that Petunia hates her.
4. She is intolerant of how James and Sirius treat Severus and takes the initiative to lead her friend out of the compartment.
The Sorting (1971)
1. She clearly has enough Gryffindor traits to be sorted into Gryffindor, although she expresses a bit of sadness that she may not be in the same house as Severus.
The Werewolf Incident (1975)
1. She doesn't understand how Severus can be friends with some of the other boys in Slytherin; we don't know how long this friendship has lasted, but it's possible this isn't the first time this has been brought up. There are two main things with this, which are seemingly contradictory:
  1. If this has been going on for a long time, then Lily has been too tolerant of Severus. She would be within her right to end their friendship considering what Mulciber is said to have done (a later point).
  2. In this conversation, we don't see Lily trying to understand why Severus would choose to be friends with them. She says she doesn't understand, but she doesn't say she wants to.
2. She has clear animosity towards Dark Magic, and this is the primary reason she gives Severus as to why she doesn't like Avery or Mulciber.
3. She is dismissive of Severus's concerns regarding Remus and the fact that the Marauders sneak out at night, even though she seems to know about his theory.
4. "They don't use Dark Magic, though." There are a few things with this line that bother me:
  1. Assuming this is the case, then Dark Magic seems to be more of a concern for Lily than the fact that they've been relentlessly bullying (according to Remus's entry on the Wizarding World) her best friend for the past four years. Granted, she still doesn't like them, but to use this as an argument means nothing. Dark Magic doesn't make bullying any better or worse.
  2. There is evidence to suggest that the Marauders use Dark Magic. In fact, I am 100% certain that everyone uses Dark Magic.
    1. Dark Magic, or dark charms specifically, are divided into three categories of increasing severity: jinxes, hexes, and curses. James and Sirius were known to randomly hex students in the halls (according to Sirius and Remus when Harry confronts them). This information is in the first-year curriculum. We're told that Lily had quite a bit of talent in Charms class, so while it's possible that she didn't pay attention to the lesson on dark charms, it's very unlikely.
    2. We have documented evidence via Harry's detention in HBP that they used an illegal hex on Bertram Aubrey that caused his head to swell up.
    3. And this isn't touching Snape's Worst Memory (we'll get to that).
  3. She mentions having heard about the incident in the tunnel under the Whomping Willow, specifically that James saved Severus. This interaction implies that this is the first time they've talked about this issue, and we see that she makes not effort to ask Severus for his side of the story; instead, she tells him he should be grateful. Given the nature of the incident, it's very possible that only Severus, Sirius, and James know what happened (Peter might have been told, but we don't know how aware Remus was), and as Severus was sworn to secrecy, this means that either James or Sirius started spreading the tale. If this is the case, then Lily is quick to believe Severus's abusers over Severus.
Snape's Worst Memory (1976)
1. She comes to Severus's defense and tries to de-escalate the situation without magic; however, the situation has already become violent, which she realizes when they continue to attack Severus and proceeds to draw her wand.
2. This is related to the above section on Dark Magic. I'm going to list every single charm, in order, that was cast:
  1. James: Disarming Charm, Impediment Jinx, Scouring Charm
  2. Severus: unknown cutting charm, not likely to be Sectumsempra due to no mention of the cut being cursed.
  3. James: Dangling Jinx
  4. Sirius: Full Body-Bind Curse
  5. James: counter-curse, Dangling Jinx
3. This may seem petty, but it's present, and I have to address it: the mouth twitch. From Harry's perspective, she looks as if she was about to smile. I understand that people react differently to situations, but this has always bothered me. But to be fair, I'll see how many explanations I can think of (this is assuming it was an almost-smile):
  1. She was responding to seeing Severus's pants, but then corrected herself. This is the least charitable interpretation, but it's possible if her relationship with Severus had deteriorated.
  2. She was responding to James being angry at Severus for cutting him. This is the most charitable interpretation, although not one I have seen presented.
4. She doesn't talk to Severus at all during the interaction, until he calls her a Mudblood, after which she proceeds to humiliate him in front of the crowd by calling him Snivellus and drawing attention to the possibility that his pants are dirty. She then leaves Severus while he is still vulnerable to attack from James and Sirius, which ultimately happens. This follows a pattern:
  1. Severus calls her a witch; she is offended and walks away.
  2. Petunia calls her a freak; she brings up the letter.
  3. Severus calls her a Mudblood; she joins in on humiliating him and then walks away.
  4. She is sensitive to name-calling; however, unlike the other instances where she gets emotional, her reaction is cold and detached.
5. She tells James that he and his friends are just as bad as Severus, implying that she hates both sides equally.
Outside the Gryffindor Tower (1976)
1. She refuses to listen to his apology (I don't blame her; the wound is still fresh); the only reason she comes out to talk to him is because Mary tells her Severus has promised to sleep outside for the entire night until Lily comes to see him.
2. She tells him she's been making excuses for him for years.
3. She calls him out for calling other Muggle-borns Mudbloods, and asks how she's any different. This is interesting, because if she knew he was doing this prior to the incident, why wouldn't she confront him about it and call him out sooner? She doesn't say anything until after she herself has been slighted.
James (1977)
1. She agrees to go out with James in seventh-year, and they eventually start officially dating. According to Petunia's (or the Dursleys') entry on the Wizarding World, as well as the wiki, Lily and James go on a double date with Petunia and Vernon. Vernon and James butt heads, and Vernon and Petunia leave; Lily is upset, and James tries to comfort her. A few things:
  1. This date occurs prior to Petunia and Vernon getting married; they were married and living together at 4 Privet Drive at the end of '77. Let's say that the Dursleys moved in at the latest possible date (31 December). This means that within four months, from 1 September to 31 December, Lily and James were close enough to go on dinner dates with Petunia and Vernon, even if it was botched.
  2. Let's assume that the above date was very close to Lily and James officially starting to date. This would mean that it took James 1 1/2 years from Snape's Worst Memory to convince Lily to date him. Keep in mind that this is taking the previous five years of bullying into account.
    1. Let me put it this way: if I was friends with a girl for maybe seven years, and she was being bullied for five of those years, I would never even consider socializing with the bully, let alone date her. Even if I had a bad falling out with my friend, and the other girl started improving.
  3. She is willing to overlook James's past behavior and give him a chance, but not the same with Severus. Granted, Severus had plenty of chances in the past to avoid what happened between them, but Lily's way of trying to steer him away from that was fairly antagonistic. This could be realistic if we take Sirius's word that she didn't hate James as much as she appeared to in that memory.
The Potter Murders (1981)
1. She doesn't trust Dumbledore enough to question James's decision to use Sirius as the Secret Keeper, assuming she didn't also choose Sirius.
2. She doesn't trust Remus enough to question Sirius's assessment of him.
3. She deeply loves her son, to the point where, despite desperate and fearing for her life, she refuses to step aside so that Voldemort can kill him. This love for her son persists after death, when she is seen through the Resurrection Stone.

If I've missed anything, let me know. This is about as much as I can think of.

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#2 · November 29, 2022, 6:54 pm

This is great analysis. Not always flattering toward Lily, but it flushes out her personality quite a bit to see it presented this way. She was indeed stubborn, occasionally self-righteous, and you can really see her gradually adopting those Gryffindor biases, whether intentional or not.

There are a few points I interpret somewhat differently, which I might elaborate on later. Overall though, I think this is very much on point – thanks so much for sharing!

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#3 · November 30, 2022, 6:45 pm

Glad to see that I did a good job in showing her character traits, and looking forward to hearing your interpretations of some of the things presented!

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#4 · December 4, 2022, 3:23 pm

Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 29, 2022, 3:47 pm

She is willing to overlook James's past behavior and give him a chance, but not the same with Severus. Granted, Severus had plenty of chances in the past to avoid what happened between them, but Lily's way of trying to steer him away from that was fairly antagonistic. This could be realistic if we take Sirius's word that she didn't hate James as much as she appeared to in that memory.

Well, it looks like "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I think that people can reassess other people and different situations after a betrayal. You have someone with whom Lily was extremely close turning out to have dark inclinations (and not showing the approprate level of remorse for those inclinations). Then you have someone whom you disliked heartily, but who at least opposes said dark inclinations. Perhaps he wasn't so bad after all. Plus he's popular and in the same House. I can see Lily's post-traumatic bias reversing the roles of victim and aggressor in light of what she saw as Severus' betrayal.

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#5 · December 4, 2022, 4:15 pm

Quote from mmlf on December 4, 2022, 3:23 pm

Well, it looks like "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I think that people can reassess other people and different situations after a betrayal. You have someone with whom Lily was extremely close turning out to have dark inclinations (and not showing the approprate level of remorse for those inclinations). Then you have someone whom you disliked heartily, but who at least opposes said dark inclinations. Perhaps he wasn't so bad after all. Plus he's popular and in the same House. I can see Lily's post-traumatic bias reversing the roles of victim and aggressor in light of what she saw as Severus' betrayal.

I think Severus's descent into darkness may have contributed to Lily seeing James in a better light. However, we don't know to what degree Severus was influenced by his housemates, only that he dismisses Mulciber's 'prank' as 'a laugh'. It's similar to how Lily mitigates James's behavior by saying he doesn't use Dark Magic (which is either ignorance on her part or a flat-out lie). Either way, this shows that they are both dismissive of the other's concerns regarding whom they are associated with; we see that Lily hates James as much as Severus in SWM (assuming Sirius is lying to Harry when he says she didn't hate James).

Post-SWM, given that she no longer associates with Severus, I could totally see her relationship with James being a case of convenience and proximity (Gryffindors, Head Boy and Girl, etc.) as well as mutual attraction (James is attractive in more than one way, excluding the dark parts of his personality). For sure, there's biases involved in her decision-making, although it's still a bit unsettling to me how relatively quickly she goes from hating James for his horrible behavior of five years to dating him after one good year.

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#6 · December 6, 2022, 3:09 am

Quote from Heatherlly on December 6, 2022, 3:09 am

Quote from The Gestalt Prince on December 4, 2022, 4:15 pm

For sure, there's biases involved in her decision-making, although it's still a bit unsettling to me how relatively quickly she goes from hating James for his horrible behavior of five years to dating him after one good year.

At face value, I agree, though there could be several explanations for this:

1.) A year seems like a relatively short time to adults, but Lily is a teenager. People change and grow so fast at that age, even from year to year. This is especially true with social relationships… people we hate in middle school can end up being close friends in high school and vice versa. There's just so much trial and error with relationships at that age, and it'seasy to prioritize (or be dismissive of) the wrong things.

2.) House biases are part of it, though I think becomes much bigger than that. As Lily grows older (sixth and seventh year), Voldemort/the war is an increasing threat. She's obviously in a vulnerable position being Muggle-born - I can see her being more forgiving of James/minimizing his negative qualities based on his clear opposition to Voldemort. I can see her doing the reverse with Severus, demonizing him to the point that James's bullying seems mild in comparison.

Combine this with the fact that James was obviously trying to put on a good impression, and yeah…

3.) This is more fanon than canon, but I personally believe that Lily was manipulated by an abuser. The signs are all there (harassing her for years, refusing to take no for an answer, attempting to blackmail her by abusing her best friend, etc). In general, his privilege and entitlement are huge red flags, long before they ever get together.

There's also the isolation factor, which is a major warning sign for abusive relationships. James obviously wanted to drive a wedge between her and Severus, and he ends up alienating her from Vernon and Petunia as well. Yes, I know Vernon was partially responsible in that situation, but there's no sign that James tried to make amends or encouraged Lily's relationship with her sister. All we see after they get together is the prioritization of his friends. Sirius is Harry's godfather, one of his friends has to be the Secret Keeper, so on and so forth. This might've been an oversight on JKR's part, but it does seem like Lily didn't have a life/friendships of her own once they got together.

Of course, we also know that he lied to her about the bullying. He was content to be with her under false pretenses – he didn't have enough respect for her to either a.) actually stop bullying, or b.) tell her the truth and let her make her own decision. Not only does this prove that James is manipulative, but also that he prioritizes his needs and feelings over hers.

If James was manipulative/abusive (and we already know he was one of those things), that would go far in explaining why Lily gravitated toward him and why it happened so quickly. Why? Because he would've taken advantage of any perceived weakness, whether it was her fear of the war/Voldemort, her loneliness after losing her best friend, etc. He would've done whatever it took to win her over, and if she was in a vulnerable place, she would've been highly susceptible to his charm/manipulation.

I'm planning to write a more in-depth analysis of their relationship within the abuser/victim framework, but for now, I'll just say the evidence is there. I don't think JKR intended it that way, but that's definitely how it comes across (at least from my perspective). Nothing about their dynamic suggests a healthy relationship.

Quote from The Gestalt Prince on December 4, 2022, 4:15 pm

For sure, there's biases involved in her decision-making, although it's still a bit unsettling to me how relatively quickly she goes from hating James for his horrible behavior of five years to dating him after one good year.

At face value, I agree, though there could be several explanations for this:

1.) A year seems like a relatively short time to adults, but Lily is a teenager. People change and grow so fast at that age, even from year to year. This is especially true with social relationships… people we hate in middle school can end up being close friends in high school and vice versa. There's just so much trial and error with relationships at that age, and it'seasy to prioritize (or be dismissive of) the wrong things.

2.) House biases are part of it, though I think becomes much bigger than that. As Lily grows older (sixth and seventh year), Voldemort/the war is an increasing threat. She's obviously in a vulnerable position being Muggle-born - I can see her being more forgiving of James/minimizing his negative qualities based on his clear opposition to Voldemort. I can see her doing the reverse with Severus, demonizing him to the point that James's bullying seems mild in comparison.

Combine this with the fact that James was obviously trying to put on a good impression, and yeah…

3.) This is more fanon than canon, but I personally believe that Lily was manipulated by an abuser. The signs are all there (harassing her for years, refusing to take no for an answer, attempting to blackmail her by abusing her best friend, etc). In general, his privilege and entitlement are huge red flags, long before they ever get together.

There's also the isolation factor, which is a major warning sign for abusive relationships. James obviously wanted to drive a wedge between her and Severus, and he ends up alienating her from Vernon and Petunia as well. Yes, I know Vernon was partially responsible in that situation, but there's no sign that James tried to make amends or encouraged Lily's relationship with her sister. All we see after they get together is the prioritization of his friends. Sirius is Harry's godfather, one of his friends has to be the Secret Keeper, so on and so forth. This might've been an oversight on JKR's part, but it does seem like Lily didn't have a life/friendships of her own once they got together.

Of course, we also know that he lied to her about the bullying. He was content to be with her under false pretenses – he didn't have enough respect for her to either a.) actually stop bullying, or b.) tell her the truth and let her make her own decision. Not only does this prove that James is manipulative, but also that he prioritizes his needs and feelings over hers.

If James was manipulative/abusive (and we already know he was one of those things), that would go far in explaining why Lily gravitated toward him and why it happened so quickly. Why? Because he would've taken advantage of any perceived weakness, whether it was her fear of the war/Voldemort, her loneliness after losing her best friend, etc. He would've done whatever it took to win her over, and if she was in a vulnerable place, she would've been highly susceptible to his charm/manipulation.

I'm planning to write a more in-depth analysis of their relationship within the abuser/victim framework, but for now, I'll just say the evidence is there. I don't think JKR intended it that way, but that's definitely how it comes across (at least from my perspective). Nothing about their dynamic suggests a healthy relationship.

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#7 · December 6, 2022, 4:11 am

1.) I can totally buy that Lily would start openly fancying James within a year of SWM, but the idea of fancying, dating, and marrying someone whom you know relentlessly bullied your best friend for "five" years is an extremely uncomfortable thought. I'd chalk it down to age as well.

2.) That's something I failed to mention as well, but I was strictly thinking about Hogwarts when I was writing that. But yeah, the war's a major contributor, though I would say more so regarding her relationship with Severus than with James.

3.) James Potter's just... I don't want to hate him, but the text gives me too many reasons to.
That dinner date could've gone better for sure, and I'm not going to take any blame away from Vernon. But thinking on it, I'm not sure if James escalated the situation due to old habits or on-purpose. The most we get of Petunia's relationship with Lily is the vase Harry breaks while riding on his broomstick, which Lily doesn't like (the vase, not the fact that her toddler son is riding on a broomstick and harassing the house pet).

As for the relationship between Lily and James, I'm looking forward to your analysis.

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#8 · March 7, 2023, 5:07 am

Lily is one of my most disliked characters in the Harry Potter (matter of personal opinion) due to the reason as @thegestaltprince mentioned that she basically dated and married someone who bullied, tormented and humiliated her former best friend.

Now, I do feel she was somewhat justified in breaking friendship with Snape, he was gradually walking into a dark path and she got tired of maintaining that friendship that she couldn't be friends with someone who held her kind of people in contempt.

As I mentioned, her going out with the James is the reason I don't like her. Sure, she was not beholden to Snape but it was not that Snape and James were the only fishes in the pond. That was an immense act of betrayal and frankly speaking I believe Snape deserved better than that.

That's why my primary ship is Snape/OC, someone who becomes the person who loves Snape above all, who places him in top of her priorities and someone who stands besides him as an equal partner.

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#9 · March 7, 2023, 5:39 am

I might be a hardcore Snily shipper, but I can understand where you're coming from. On its face, Lily choosing to date (and later marry) Severus's bully does seem cold as hell. I personally prefer to think it was more complicated than that, particularly since she was young and naïve and James was a known (and quite skilled) manipulator. I think he bamboozled her into believing that he'd changed/regretted his past behavior, and of course, there is evidence for this in canon.

Having said that, it's all open to interpretation. Your perspective is as fair as mine, and I'm glad that both of us are able to enjoy the ships we prefer. 💚

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#10 · March 7, 2023, 5:49 am

I have no issues with Snily as a whole and basically operate on the principle that ship and let ship.

That being said, James bamboozling and manipulative nature doesn't take away that Lily still made that choice of choosing her former best friend bully and gave him chance about 1.2-1.3 year after the SWM. Jily could've been more disgestable if they got together 2-3 years after the graduation where James' 'change' could've been not as ambiguous as it is currently.

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