The Fidelius Charm in Harry Potter: Consistent or a Plot Hole?
@jaysm asks whether it was a plot hole for Lord Voldemort to thereotically be able to see the house where Lily and James Potter were hiding, if the house were under the Fidelius Charm. Jay also asks how the secret of Grimmwald Place can be shared by Dumbledore, yet the charm is not broken as to allow Harry's enemies to find the place.
Anyone have any ideas?
(Jay feel free to correct if I have misunderstood your argument!)
I asked if the Potters were the subject of the Fidelus Charm why could everyone still see Harry while Peter was alive?
Initially I thought the house was under Fidelus but then I read this “You-Know-Who could search the village where Lily and James were staying for years and never find them, not even if he had his nose pressed against their sitting-room window!” Quote from Prisoner of Azkaban which implied that Voldemort could see the house just not the “subjects” of the Fidelus.
Did Peter just “forget” to place Harry under Fidelus or is this a plot hole?
On first issue, i.e Voldemort and others able to see Potter house, I feel it was not house but Potters themselves were secret. So, people could see house but not it's inhabitants. Yeah, I agree that execution of idea sucked but this seems only realistic interpretation of what they did.
On the second topic, the secret was house not the people, so when Dumbledore died, the people who knew the secret became new secret keepers. That's how Harry's enemies were able to find it because Hermione accidentally let them in, Snape didn't share it.
Quote from JaySM on June 26, 2023, 2:31 amI asked if the Potters were the subject of the Fidelus Charm why could everyone still see Harry while Peter was alive?
Because whole family was the secret, that's why a singular death i.e James Potter broke the secret.
My initial argument to Jay was that the Fidelius Charm concerned Harry Potter's location, which is why Lord Voldemort could, as Professor Flitwick said, 'search the village where Lily and James were staying for years and never find them, not even if he had his nose pressed against their sitting-room window!' (Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Chapter 10, page 217.)
While Jay argues that Lord Voldemort shouldn't have been able to see their sitting-room window if the Fidelius Charm only covers the house. I thought it was that Lord Voldemort doesn't know that it's the house where Lily and James are staying. I can understand how this quote does make it look as though Lily and James are the ones covered by the Fidelius Charm, but I think it was supposed to apply to wherever Harry was staying; neither Lily nor James were the ones that Lord Voldemort sought.
"Naturally," said Professor McGonagall. "James Potter told Dumbledore that Black would die rather then tell where they were, that Black was planning to go into hiding himself."
(Page 217)
To be fair, Jay does quote from Book 7, where Harry is unsure that he will be able to see Godric's Hollow, if the keepers of the Fidelius Charm have died. I can't really answer this point, though we might be able to read through the lines in Book 3 and wonder whether Dumbledore was, in some way, privy to this secret. @heatherlly did suggest that the charm was broken once the secret was shared, and Harry wasn't privy to that sharing.
Anyway, a fascinating conundrum. I would love to know what other people think!
Quote from Naaga on June 26, 2023, 2:34 am
Yeah, because the thing that secret was protecting didn't remain intact. The whole Potter family was secret so with both James and Lily's death, family broke apart and Harry, a singular Potter couldn't be protected by the same secret.
Quote from Naaga on June 26, 2023, 2:38 amYeah, because the thing that secret was protecting didn't remain intact. The whole Potter family was secret so with both James and Lily's death, family broke apart and Harry, a singular Potter couldn't be protected by the same secret.
That’s makes sense. I was wondering how anyone was able to collect Harry if he was under the Fidelus. Or how anyone was able to see the House to collect Harry if it was under Fidelus too.
But it makes sense that if one of the Potters died then the entire charm would fall because the secret had all three of them.
Here I thought Peter was being sneaky not placing Harry under Fidelus.
Here is my own headcanon on how Fidelius works:
* You can't Fidelius people, only tangible locations.
* Voldemort could see the house, but he would never realize that the Potters lived there. The knowledge would just not stick. He could see the people inside, realize "yeah people live there", but he would lack object permanence, so to speak (like with babies thinking that things they can't see simply don't exist).
* Only someone other than people who consider the location to be their home can be trusted with the secret. Sort of. This is why the Potters weren't their own Secret Keepers.
* Once the Secret Keeper dies, everyone who knew the secret become Secret Keepers. This is canon.
* This can be exploited to make a person Secret-Keep their own location, by having the original Secret Keeper die. I believe this happened twice in canon; Grimmauld Place (Harry was Secret Keeper despite living there, although he wasn't the only one), and Shell Cottage (I headcanon Ted to have been the original Secret Keeper for the location).
The secret was something like, "The Potter family is hidden inside the 'x' house in Godric's Hollow."
However, later J.K. Rowling retconned the secret room because Harry was worried about not being able to see his family house in Godric's Hollow.
Another stupidity was not using Fidelius like Bill Weasley did, when he himself became Secret Keeper for Shell Cottage. It would have saved the Potters a lot of grief.
