Tobias Snape & Eileen Prince
Quote from Snoopy on September 10, 2026, 8:00 amI think everyone's interpretation will always be a bit coloured by their own direct/indirect experiences. So I love hearing how different people fill in the gaps that JKR left.
For what it's worth, my own head-cannon is very much constructed from tidbits I heard or experienced growing up in England at the same time as Harry, with part of my family that came from a similar background/era as Snape in the midlands.
For me, my assumptions were always that there was abuse and alcohol involved on his father's side, but also religion (or the use of it to justify bad behaviour). Back in the 60s, it wasn't 'swinging' everywhere, and most of the smaller rural or industrial towns outside of main cities would have still been living how they had always done, with the town 'chapel' being the central social point. People may not have been strictly religious about it (actually believing every word), but it was still seen as suspicious/morally dubious behaviour if you went against the church (and working class communities were very tight knit, so it would have been noticed). Working class pride was built very much on the idea of 'respectability', with the church setting the standard for what was 'proper' and most people were still getting dressed up on Sundays to attend church and getting married in front of a priest/vicar.
I can imagine that being a point of tension if Tobias knew his wife was a witch (even if no one else did). He might have brushed it off as an unimportant detail when they first started dating (like many people do while still in that 'honeymoon phase'), but then grew more frustrated by it over time and considered it a moral failing/embarrassment and shaming her about it during fights and/or forbidding magic in the house. I recall the amount of haranguing my aunt got when she didn't want to get baptised as a teenager (and her parents weren't that religious compared to some people in their community, it was just 'the done thing'). If his son turned out to be a wizard too (which he would have started to show signs of as he got a bit older), then I imagine this would have aggravated their relationship even further.
Since Snape grew up in a muggle house/area, I doubt he would have had a private tutor or whatever pureblood kids have before Hogwarts. So we can assume he was sent to a local muggle school from 5-11. And primary schools in areas such as the one he grew up in would definitely have been deeply religious back then. I believe the 1940s Education Act actually mandated that schools were legally required to begin every day with religious worship (prayers, hymns, etc in assembly) and HAD to teach Religious Education as part of the curriculum (which meant Bible study back then). In a lot of the industrial mill towns like his, the catholic church actually owned/ran the schools directly. So it would have been strictly enforced with crosses everywhere, grace before lunch, and so on. You could technically withdraw your child from certain lessons, but that would have been extremely rare and would have turned them into an easy target for bullying/isolation as a result (and, of, course, all the other parents would quickly find out and gossip about 'that family'). I can imagine little Severus coming home and asking questions and his parent's having very different opinions on things such as 'witchcraft' and other 'immoral demonic practices'. Perhaps he'd made certain innocent comments in class (that he'd heard from his mother) and received punishment for it (corporal punishment was still widely used in schools, especially strict ones like his would have been), and that had contributed to Petunia's overall view of him as 'that awful boy'. The UK had only recently repealed its legal ban on practicing witchcraft, so public suspicion was still very high. Tobias would not have been happy having to deal with constant comments and scrutiny about his family (and as the male 'head of house', he would have been deemed responsible). If he already had anger issues, that would have probably sent him over the edge.
For some reason, I always assumed Tobias and his family were Irish and came over to England for work (like many did back then). I later went back and re-read the books and can't find any reference to this, so I'm not sure where it originated. Alan Rickman had Irish ancestry on his father's side. So maybe I heard that in an interview and mixed up the actor/character's background as their ages weren't too far off. Either way, it stuck. My own relatives moved from Ireland to England around the same time for the same reason, so that just made sense to me.
The alcohol thing is interesting, as there are a few subtle nods in the books to Snape having at least some over-attachment to wine. His task in the first book involves nettle wine, he's seen drinking wine on a school day with meals in the hall, and he knocks back an entire glass in one go as if it's water when Narcissa visits him. So at minimum, he's a 'regular' drinker. Not necessarily the drunk and disorderly type, but I could see him using alcohol as a crutch to keep from going entirely mad from his life and building up a higher and higher tolerance over time. Considering there are probably a myriad other more effective ways of magically 'burning off steam', it seems odd that he'd still have an attachment to alcohol. Unless this was a vice he grew up around that still feels 'normal' to him. I think 'functional alcoholic' would be the term - a couple of glasses of wine during the day at lunch, 1-2 more in the evening with dinner, maybe a couple while he's marking work in his office. Maybe a few extra at the weekend. Not enough to be noticed or get drunk, but easily 50+ units a week. Which he perhaps doesn't see as a problem, as he saw his father drinking far more and getting aggressive.
I can't think of anything else off the top of my head, but that's my HC for now!
Thats why in my fanfic I made Lily Dad or Mum is scared when lily first showing sign of magic. They think lily practicing witchcraft that is one form of wickedness and sickness.in my story lily dad is priest in cokeworth that is deputy head of small church near spinners end. Lily Dad acceptance of lily magic is sign of relief that his daughter is not practicing devil power but talent that is born from genetics
Quote from IFFIN on September 11, 2026, 12:14 pmQuote from Shell Cottage on September 11, 2026, 1:17 amyes
“None of the Death Eaters moved. They were waiting. Everything was waiting. Hagrid was struggling, and Bellatrix was panting, and Harry thought inexplicably of Ginny, and her lazing look, and the feel of her lips on his–.”
Well I know I passed over this, because I am not a big Ginny fan. I was going to say maybe bad editing, because the first read for me was “Bellatrix was panting” and then right after that Harry is thinking about “Ginny’s lips on his–.” I think this is a children’s book isn’t it. This paragraph can really be opened up for interpretation.
Doing a quick Google and quickly reading some discussions (which I hate) is that Harry thinks he is dying and his last thoughts are of the person he loves the most. Which parallels Snape's last thoughts.” “Look…at…me” he whispered”. Some calling JKR a genius for this parallel and lost boys parallel and the three brothers parallel. Personally I get lost in all those parallels. I am dizzy right now.
Also reading online discussions can be funny like reading Amazon reviews for Bic Pens “for her”. Already the jokes are in “What are her lips on? His wand.” Many people reading will go with their first impressions and not go into deep analysis of the many parallels JKR has. And if a joke is there for asking why not.
I am also reminded of a class discussion I witness in creative writing. I didn’t take part in it. I just observed, because it got too heated. One woman was reading her work and when she finished she said she wanted to write for children. Then another student said that if she was thinking of writing for children then she should think of her audience and change some things. This led to a big loud discussion of stumping creativity children just have to learn and a bunch of other things. But when it comes to it, many works have to be edited for clarity and other things. What I read is that the first Harry Potter book was rewritten a few times, some say even around fifteen. Most things we read are edited. Just like this post. If I didn’t then the point I was trying might get lost in my rants. Others are probably saying, get to the point already.
Let me start with the Snape quote “Look…at…me” he whispered”. This reads like something from a romance novel. Very commonly used during romantic moments, especially if it is whispered. In movies or TV it is just shown as two lovers staring at each other for a long time during romantic moments. I’m thinking of Buffy and Spike. So my first impression was “did he sleep with Harry’s mom” let me go write some Snily and others might think “he said that to Harry” let me write some Snarry. Still others will go on about the great parallels of JKR. Which in the first reading of the book we haven’t gotten to, and first impressions stay with a bunch of us. In the movie that line was changed to for Snape to say "You have your mother’s eyes” which I think brings more clarity, especially for children.
The second quote has "Bellatrix was panting” and then right after that Harry is thinking about “Ginny’s lips on his–.” Yeah I can see someone creeping out on that or thinking that Harry and Ginny had sex. So if I was dying and in the background Charles Manson was breathing…I don’t think I would be thinking about sex or a kiss. At this point readers have been reading this book through Harry's perspective, so when I am reading this I picture that these characters are not far from him and that Bellatrix panting is very loud and she is right over him. I remember reading that many of the last books were badly edited, because as Harry Potter got more popular JKR got more creative control. And let's face it, many writers don’t want to edit much. And many readers of Harry Potter didn’t mind it either. But as a result we are left with a lot of questions. Which I don’t mind. I think it gives rise to a lot of great fanfic.
Here is my example how I might have edited the scene:
Harry felt like he was slowly fading away and in the background he didn’t hear any of the Death Eaters move but Bellatrix panting.
He knew they were waiting.
They were waiting.
Everything was waiting.
Hagrid was struggling. And Harry’s thoughts went inexplicably of Ginny, and her lazing look, and the feel of her lips on his lips.
Sorry, it has taken me a while to reply to this, because I wasn't sure what to say...
I think the connection between Ginny and Bellatrix here is deliberate.
And I think a history of domestic/sexual abuse would make an author *more* aware of sexual connotations, not less. Same for word choices like "cowering"...or the implications of someone reluctant to remove a cover-up layer even in blistering summer heat.
Feel free to say what you want. It is just my opinion . Granted I am not alone in the editing. I remember reading comments years ago, maybe even around 20, about her first husband. But I also see a lot of repetition in some of their writing and the over use of adverbs. But I am speaking on the technical side of writing. I think she is a great story teller, love her world and her characters. Before anyone tells me about her flaws in her world building, which I have read a few of them, I find that I am very forgiving in fiction. I love time travel movies and there are always flaws in those movies. I also know many teachers of literature teach how the author chooses their words carefully. . I can see it in some. But I also think those are books that take a long time to write and have been looked over and over, such as, James Joyce Finnegans Wake took 17 years. JKR took about two years to write The Deathly Hallows and she was pregnant part of the time and taking care of new born another part. She did seclude herself in a hotel room for a few months in the final draft. I personally don't think that two years is enough time to go every paragraph and every word. And if editors are not comfortable doing their job, because the author wants more creative control then there are going to be mistakes. I won't go on about this. It is just my opinion. But if your are interested there are articles about this and how the first books are tighter and better edited than the others. I personally don't mind, because we got more of the Wizarding World. I will kind of continue the subject on domestic/sexual abuse that you mentioned on the other post of hated characters and why I have a hard time with author's intent especially when it comes to James Potter.
No novelist or screenwriter expects their audience to draw identical conclusions from the (often deliberately ambiguous or obscure) details presented in their work...so I'm not sure why we've become so adamant about shaking our fists in scorn at the idea of ''authorial intent,'' as if this were some sort of intellectual shackle that prevents readers from analyzing a text and drawing conclusions for themselves.
"Death of the Author" should not mean "There is No Longer Any Point to Close Reading.'' Charles Dickens was writing serialized installments on a deadline, too, but people don't use his multitudinous mistakes (and he wasn't even pregnant lol) as a reason to accuse him of not knowing what he was doing as a writer. The overall quality and depth of a novel should speak for itself...and when the text proves time and time again the author's competency and deliberate attention to detail, I think the very *least* armchair critics can do is give writers the benefit of the doubt that they are, in fact, "compos mentis" in their artistic decisions at crucial plot points.
Quote from Shell Cottage on September 15, 2026, 12:59 pmNo novelist or screenwriter expects their audience to draw identical conclusions from the (often deliberately ambiguous or obscure) details presented in their work...so I'm not sure why we have become so emphatic about shaking our fists in scorn at the idea of ''authorial intent,'' as if this were some sort of intellectual shackle that denies readers the freedom to "Think!" (like my Snape quote there? 😉 ), analyze a text, and draw conclusions for themselves.
"Death of the Author" should not mean "There is No Longer Any Point to Close Reading.''
Charles Dickens was a serialized author on a deadline, too, but people don't use his multitudinous mistakes, plot holes, and continuity errors (and he wasn't even pregnant! lol) as a reason to accuse him of lazy writing. When I can tell--from the quality of a novel--that the writer most likely had to have shed blood, sweat, and tears pouring the last dregs of their soul into crafting a coherent, exceedingly complex, plot-driven narrative (armchair critics should try publishing a bestseller sometime, lol)--and the text itself proves time and time again, on every page, the author's competency and deliberate attention to detail--I think the author at least deserves the benefit of the doubt that they are, in fact, "compos mentis" in their artistic decisions at crucial plot points. (Even if they are driven primarily by subconscious intuition, which I think most good writers are.)
I have no interest in defending JKR or the Harry Potter series specifically--I would defend the validity of "close reading" whether we were discussing the significance of plot details in a well-crafted fanfic or a murder mystery written by Vlad the Impaler.
Now I am not sure what to say. I am not sure if you are saying I am not a close reader, and I admit I am not perfect. But much of my "death to the author" comes from years of being on discussion boards and someone is coming up with an analysis of their own and someone tries to shut them down by some quoting the author, director or even the actor who played the character.
Quote from IFFIN on September 15, 2026, 1:39 pmQuote from Shell Cottage on September 15, 2026, 12:59 pmNo novelist or screenwriter expects their audience to draw identical conclusions from the (often deliberately ambiguous or obscure) details presented in their work...so I'm not sure why we have become so emphatic about shaking our fists in scorn at the idea of ''authorial intent,'' as if this were some sort of intellectual shackle that denies readers the freedom to "Think!" (like my Snape quote there?
), analyze a text, and draw conclusions for themselves.
"Death of the Author" should not mean "There is No Longer Any Point to Close Reading.''
Charles Dickens was a serialized author on a deadline, too, but people don't use his multitudinous mistakes, plot holes, and continuity errors (and he wasn't even pregnant! lol) as a reason to accuse him of lazy writing. When I can tell--from the quality of a novel--that the writer most likely had to have shed blood, sweat, and tears pouring the last dregs of their soul into crafting a coherent, exceedingly complex, plot-driven narrative (armchair critics should try publishing a bestseller sometime, lol)--and the text itself proves time and time again, on every page, the author's competency and deliberate attention to detail--I think the author at least deserves the benefit of the doubt that they are, in fact, "compos mentis" in their artistic decisions at crucial plot points. (Even if they are driven primarily by subconscious intuition, which I think most good writers are.)
I have no interest in defending JKR or the Harry Potter series specifically--I would defend the validity of "close reading" whether we were discussing the significance of plot details in a well-crafted fanfic or a murder mystery written by Vlad the Impaler.
Now I am not sure what to say. I am not sure if you are saying I am not a close reader, and I admit I am not perfect. But much of my "death to the author" comes from years of being on discussion boards and someone is coming up with an analysis of their own and someone tries to shut them down by some quoting the author, director or even the actor who played the character.
I ought to have prioritized emphasizing and reassuring you that I don't think you aren't a close reader--on the contrary! You obviously know these books very well--that goes without saying!
Another random thought on Eileen...Even though it seems she couldn't afford much, she nevertheless made sure that Severus went off to Hogwarts with his own wand.
(If Sirius is claiming Snape was performing 7th year spells* as a 1st year [*my interpretation of Sirius's reference to curses and hexes], that means Snape wasn't in a situation like Neville or Ron, using someone else's wand because his mother couldn't afford to take him to Ollivander's.)
I see this as touching--Eileen did love her son enough to buy him a new wand (which, presumably, is not cheap).
(though I can see the possibility for more cynical takes on this, too)
I also see Snape's intelligence and talent as a student, combined with 1) a psychological need to prove himself and 2) an inclination to refuse help--both of which would lead him to refuse being taken to the Hospital Wing after getting hexed or injured by the Marauders--as making him a prime candidate for the type of kid who can be abused at home without anyone realizing it...because he's a good student. That's super lame, but absolutely true to life. Generally teachers and people at school only take note if a student is struggling and/or isn't making a conscious effort to cover up the fact that anything is wrong at home. And the smarter you are, the better you are at covering it up.
Quote from Shell Cottage on September 18, 2026, 7:59 am...if Sirius is claiming Snape was performing 7th year spells* as a 1st year [*my interpretation of Sirius's reference to curses and hexes]
yeah, admittedly, that's its own discussion topic...
