Characters We Ended Up Hating After Reading Fanfics-- and Vice Versa
Quote from Sam on September 28, 2023, 3:51 pmNot to sound like an absolute tool, but in real life one wouldn't stay like Snape at all.
How come?
As for Lily's character, it doesn't speak that highly of her to only cut ties with Severus for him calling her a mudblood and not others as she mentioned during his apology.
Well, best friends will often overlook each other's faults, especially if there's more than enough good to justify continuing the friendship.
Also, for a supposed best friend. All she did was nag at Marauders and never used a hex once. Plus, the more egregious point of her downplaying Severus's grievances while defending her Gryffindors that "At least, they don't use Dark Magic". And to her, the friendship wasn't as important as it was to Severus.
But Lily remained friends with Snape despite facing questions from her Gryffindor friends, so he clearly did matter. As for the hierarchy of crimes, I personally don't see anything wrong with her pointing out that the Marauders didn't use Dark Magic.
We can argue whether she was tricked by Potter or maybe she was naive or that she was a teen.
Probably a combination of all these factors.
As for Lily marrying Potter, obviously she's free to cozy up to whoever she wants to. But, it's a bit suspicious that she chose him out of all people when considering the fact that he and his cronies had been relentlessly bullying her supposed best friend for 5 years at that point and not secretly. That only happened after she had been with him.
I don't find it suspicious at all. She ended her friendship with Snape because he was too close to Dark Magic and the growing cotillerie of Voldemort's supporters. James Potter was firmly against all of that, so why wouldn't she forgive him and give him a chance? That does appear to be one of the few firm things we can say about Lily Potter; she was tolerant and forgiving, hence why she stuck with Snape for so long.
Well, in real life. There are countless examples of people doing unthinkable things due to perceived jealousy and betrayal. And if not that, they move on instead of moping around for decades onto the memory of the person and trying to save their child with their biggest tormentor out of guilt or whatever.
Indeed, best friends often overlook each other's faults. Whether it's a good thing or not, is a different matter.
Severus remained friends with a 'mudblood' despite facing questions from his Slytherin 'friends', so she clearly did matter (don't really need to point out). As for the heirarchy of crimes, I personally don't see anything wrong with him pointing out that they're the same as his Slytherin 'friends'. It's not like you need dark magic to choke someone to death or strip someone, or sending someone to the infirmary countless times over the years. Or well trying to scare someone by sending them to a fully transformed werewolf (clearly Severus is to blame here, it was just a prank gone wrong). At least, it wasn't dark magic. Which begs the question that the staff never questioned them using dark magic. Maybe, that was just exagerrated because of all Slytherins eat babies bias?
Indeed, Severus was also a teen and also naive to think that his friendship with Lily would ever last regardless of the mudblood incident.
Indeed, it really isn't suspicious because she chose Potter out of all people to hook up with. After all, he clearly grew up from his bullying ways and he was sanctioned by the headmaster. Besides, Potter was so firmly against all of that that he and his cronies started going after a poor half-blood Slytherin whenever he was by himself. Truly, pre-emptive strike against future death eaters, my bad. It's not like he didn't go after any rich pure-bloods in Slytherin, because that would invite too much trouble. Indeed, Lily Evans was very tolerant and forgiving of those that she approved. She approved Severus at one point, but then approved Potter even if according to her own words he was just a bullying toe-rag. That indeed speaks very highly of her character.
Sorry if I come across like a dickhead but honestly, that doesn't really shed Lily in a very good light. And she wasn't a good friend at all. She claimed it often but that's all it was. Now, we can definitely say that Severus was going down a wrong path. But it's not like he didn't come from a poor and neglectful background, was treated less than dirt by everyone, decided it would be better to go along with those with less than stellar reputation because that was his only ticket.
I believe Severus and Lily have their differences, and Lily wasn't exactly faultless in terms of their friendship.
She apparently fancied James even before he, as Sirius put it, "deflated his head" and stopped hexing others for fun, and I'm astonished why people make such a big deal about James changing when his friends admitted he only toned down his bullying and didn't change as a person.
As much as I'm a fan of Snily, @thegestaltprince's Lily in Gestaltation seems like the character she is supposed to be in canon is highly flawed.
While I don't hate her, sometimes people get as far as to defend James to defend her. Severus was just not Lily's type; that's the thing, not that James changed to become a better person for her. Lily, as with all characters in HP, has flaws, and her choosing James doesn't mean she is a terrible person, but a terrible friend.
Exactly. Severus and Lily just weren't compatible at all. Their friendship would have never worked at all. She was dismissive of his concerns, and to some extent he was dismissive of her concerns too. The whole dynamic of their relationship was flawed from the beginning. To Severus, she was his only friend and he latched onto her because of that. However, to Lily he was just another friend and who was going towards a different path than she liked. She never provided a solution, just nagged at him that he's wrong. Her worldview was there's only light and dark, can't be anything inbetween. She was indeed a flawed character. But, many authors seem to deify her despite that and present a version of her that's not even close to canon at all.
Aside from that, the characters Rowling depicted act very unrealistic compared to real life people. But, at the end of the day. It's just a childrens book and people are either cartoonishly evil, or the epitomy of goodness and maybe one or two morally grey characters. That's all there is to it.
Personally, I don't like any characters except Severus and I might be biased because of that. And even then, I am aware of his flaws too and wish he was slightly different. That's the beauty of fanfiction that we can get all sorts of revisions of the characters that we like.
It's just a childrens book and people are either cartoonishly evil, or the epitomy of goodness and maybe one or two morally grey characters. That's all there is to it.
I think one of the things Rowling did right is character creation. There are no morally white characters in the books. I can't name a single character that has no negative traits and this discussion about Lily (who is perhaps the most whitewashed character in the fandom) is proof of that.
As much as I dislike bashing in fanfiction, it can be really useful because it points out the nuances in personalities. You combine the hyperbolised negative traits with your originally boring one-dimentional view, and you get something that looks like a real human being. Kind of ironic, really.
An interesting view @salvyus and I agree about there being no wholly good or bad guy in the HP series.
I think Lily gets mostly positive treatment because her negative traits are not verbally discussed in the books, unlike the others. Even our protagonist Harry had a lot of negative traits pointed out by others.
On topic of bashing fics, I only read them for catharsis after reading my least favourite characters portrayed in saintly light. Interesting point about knowing other dimensions about those characters.
James. Before fanfics, I didn't care for James, I didn't like the scenes we see with him in canon at all, but I was somewhat indifferent to him as a whole. Some Jily (yes!) and Snily fanfics later, and I actively dislike him. Jily fics tone down his bullying, but one thing they don't change is his behaviour towards Lily and not taking "no" for an answer. That's not "romantic", that's just creepy. And I've seen a bunch of headcanons and fics where he goes out of his way to ruin Lily's dates with other people to basically eliminate all her prospects to "force" her together with him. This didn't endear me to him, at all.
So, before fanfics, I saw James as a spoiled bully, but ultimately not someone to be outright detested -- he did defy Voldemort and tried to delay Voldemort to save Lily and Harry's life. After fanfics, I can add "an awful creep" to the list, and fanfics are the reason why I detest the Jily pairing.
There isn't much to add to this discussion as most points have been raised but I would like to point out that Snape's behavior isn't actually unrealistic. If Rowling got anything right it was that her characters are realistically grey rather than divided into black and white. I don't deny that in real life there are people who go above and beyond to get vengeance on those who wronged them but Snape is not such a person. Snape actually saved Remus' life during the chase of the poly juiced Harrys and spent almost a decade repeatedly saving the life of a child he despised. I see him as a man who truly is trying to atone for his sins of the past instead of vengeance but he also isn't a saint as we see in his treatment of some of his students which makes him realistic.
As to no real person grieving for so long? I personally know a woman who is grieving her deceased husband who died 23 years ago. She hasn't worn any other color than black for all those years, she carries around a picture of him at all times and starts wailing when you mention him. Is this healthy? Definitely no but it is realistic. Some people, especially when there's trauma or survivor's guilt involved, do not move on. Yes, normal, healthy people do whether it is the loss of a loved one or a breakup.
Severus' problem is that Lily was the best thing in his life and then he unintentionally ended up causing her death and that is not an easy thing to digest. He pushed her away by using that slur and then he made a madman go after her and her family.
Lily is by no means an angel despite the fandom desperately trying to portray her as such. The things that do stand out to me is the fact that she doesn't really seem to believe Severus when he is trying to talk to her about the werewolf incident, it seems she's more inclined to believe her housemates than her so-called best friend. Then there's the suppressed smile and the way she retaliated after Snape calls her mudblood. If she were such a saint she wouldn't have tried to hurt him back, instead of an eye for an eye, she could have walked away and let him deal with the situation on his own since he doesn't need assistance from a mudblood. Apropos mudblood, I honestly have to raise a brow at her being apparently fine with him using that slur against others and only cutting ties with him once it is directed at her. As someone who has experienced racism, I will not make excuses for someone who is a racist, such a person would only be tolerated as a colleague (and in that case I would have no other choice but to be civil for the sake of professionalism) but never ever would I allow a personal connection with such a person. Yes, we make excuses for people we hold dear but there's a limit to everything. Lily can tolerate his angry outbursts and excuse them with his difficult homelife or his lack of hygiene due to his financial situation but racism? That's not something easily forgivable and the fact that she seemed to have tolerated it until she herself suffered from it does not paint her in a good light.
Now, does she deserve death? No, of course not. She is free to choose her friends and spouse, especially since to her, Snape seems to have been history at that point. The main problem in their relationship is that their friendship wasn't mutual; Severus never held as much value for Lily as she held for him and that's why it seems like it was much more easy for her to move on. Her friendship with Severus had a shaky base from the very beginning and wasn't meant to last. They came from different backgrounds and have different morals, the only thing they had in common was magic and at Hogwarts that's a meaningless reason to remain friends. You can compare them to two kids living in a neighborhood where no other children live and they have no one to keep them company and play with but each other and in such a situation children are quick to form friendships. Besides, younger children find friends much more easily, it becomes more difficult the older one gets. At Hogwarts, there were plenty other children to choose from as potential friends and the only reason why Lily and Sev would still keep each other's company, would be their shared past. Lily hated dark magic but Severus loved it; Lily was comparatively well off and from a more functional family, Severus was poor and from a dysfunctional family; Lily married Sev's bully and Severus joined a terrorist organization that targeted people like his ex-best friend. They were never meant to last.
