Meta: Snape, Marauders, and Sexism
Source: The Snape being Sexist headcanons are genuinely…
the snape being sexist headcanons are genuinely hilarious because theres nothing in canon to support them but on the other hand you have the marauders, one who threatens a girl to date him and sees her like a prize to win, one with severe mommy issues, who keeps ignoring and cutting off hermione whenever she talks sense, who beefs with mrs weasley acting like she doesnt have an entire family shes worried about, and one who ditches his pregnant wife. But theyre the woke feminists...right.
Right? Isn't it funny how much overlap there is between:
- fans who claim that the guy who was best friends with a girl for years, who made a nickname for himself out of his mother's maiden name, who had a specifically female patronus, and who pulled through what happened in the chapter Spinner's End with dignity, was a raging misogynist
And
- fans who claim that the group of traditionally masculine, sporty bros who were popular kids in the 70s, are known to emasculate and bully boys who they see as beneath them and one of whom tried to harass a girl into going on a date with him while another got cold feet and almost abandoned his pregnant wife, were feminists, the ultimate allies for women and minorities and warriors against toxic masculinity.
...
Really? These are your feminist heroes?
I'm really trying not to come off as too anti-Marauders on Tumblr, I don't hate them as characters, but I'm not going to pretend that the popular "sEnSiTivE fEmiNisT bOis uwu" fanon of them doesn't feel like utter bullshit.
On the other hand I kind of understand why it's such a big thing, because a lot of these fans/fanfic authors seem to be pretty young (as if I'm not 20 haha), and it's obvious that this is the fans/authors projecting their own battles HARD on the characters and the world. If the Marauders are your favorite characters, of course you'll want them to be on your side. You want Sirius and Remus to have been at Stonewall (notice the conspicuous change in country), you want James to be an outspoken warrior against sexist attitudes, you want to see Marauders who are comfortably in touch with their emotions to break down masculine stereotypes, et cetera, because those are the things that you would fight for and want your friends to fight for.
I 100% get it.
But.
As an AFAB, I just genuinely don't buy that the canon Marauders, especially as teenagers, would have been "woke" feminists. In my view, they are like... probably the most accurate representation of (casual) toxic masculinity in the series. And it doesn't make them all bad, especially considering that these books were written in the 90s and reflect the attitudes of those times. In the end, it's just one of the many, many different flaws people can have.
Like for example, there are so many headcanons of the Marauders crossdressing casually, because omg you go kweeeens fuck gender roles. But... canon Remus used crossdressing as a joke, to humiliate a colleague. How woke is it to laugh at a man you forced into women's clothing?
This all isn't to say that Snape is overall less toxic than the Marauders, but his toxicity is not all that gendered in nature, if that's the correct way to say it. His toxicity and bullying doesn't seem to be so much based on gender roles, compared to Sirius and James' - if anything, he seems to kind of resent masculine gender expectations, obviously struggling to fit them himself.
It all comes down to the fact that there is no canon evidence of the Marauders being feminists, while there is canon evidence of Severus NOT being a misogynist. I guess that's why it's so weird that those headcanons are as popular as they are.
Friendly reminder that the marauders are not saints, in fact they were pretty much assholes with huge prejudices 🙂
#Marauder-critical #Not for Marauder stans
Quote from Naaga on August 17, 2023, 12:47 amSource: The Snape being Sexist headcanons are genuinely?
the snape being sexist headcanons are genuinely hilarious because theres nothing in canon to support them but on the other hand you have the marauders, one who threatens a girl to date him and sees her like a prize to win, one with severe mommy issues, who keeps ignoring and cutting off hermione whenever she talks sense, who beefs with mrs weasley acting like she doesnt have an entire family shes worried about, and one who ditches his pregnant wife. But theyre the woke feminists...right.
Right? Isn't it funny how much overlap there is between:
- fans who claim that the guy who was best friends with a girl for years, who made a nickname for himself out of his mother's maiden name, who had a specifically female patronus, and who pulled through what happened in the chapter Spinner's End with dignity, was a raging misogynist
And
- fans who claim that the group of traditionally masculine, sporty bros who were popular kids in the 70s, are known to emasculate and bully boys who they see as beneath them and one of whom tried to harass a girl into going on a date with him while another got cold feet and almost abandoned his pregnant wife, were feminists, the ultimate allies for women and minorities and warriors against toxic masculinity.
...
Really? These are your feminist heroes?
I'm really trying not to come off as too anti-Marauders on Tumblr, I don't hate them as characters, but I'm not going to pretend that the popular "sEnSiTivE fEmiNisT bOis uwu" fanon of them doesn't feel like utter bullshit.
On the other hand I kind of understand why it's such a big thing, because a lot of these fans/fanfic authors seem to be pretty young (as if I'm not 20 haha), and it's obvious that this is the fans/authors projecting their own battles HARD on the characters and the world. If the Marauders are your favorite characters, of course you'll want them to be on your side. You want Sirius and Remus to have been at Stonewall (notice the conspicuous change in country), you want James to be an outspoken warrior against sexist attitudes, you want to see Marauders who are comfortably in touch with their emotions to break down masculine stereotypes, et cetera, because those are the things that you would fight for and want your friends to fight for.
I 100% get it.
But.
As an AFAB, I just genuinely don't buy that the canon Marauders, especially as teenagers, would have been "woke" feminists. In my view, they are like... probably the most accurate representation of (casual) toxic masculinity in the series. And it doesn't make them all bad, especially considering that these books were written in the 90s and reflect the attitudes of those times. In the end, it's just one of the many, many different flaws people can have.
Like for example, there are so many headcanons of the Marauders crossdressing casually, because omg you go kweeeens fuck gender roles. But... canon Remus used crossdressing as a joke, to humiliate a colleague. How woke is it to laugh at a man you forced into women's clothing?
This all isn't to say that Snape is overall less toxic than the Marauders, but his toxicity is not all that gendered in nature, if that's the correct way to say it. His toxicity and bullying doesn't seem to be so much based on gender roles, compared to Sirius and James' - if anything, he seems to kind of resent masculine gender expectations, obviously struggling to fit them himself.
It all comes down to the fact that there is no canon evidence of the Marauders being feminists, while there is canon evidence of Severus NOT being a misogynist. I guess that's why it's so weird that those headcanons are as popular as they are.
Friendly reminder that the marauders are not saints, in fact they were pretty much assholes with huge prejudices 🙂
#Marauder-critical #Not for Marauder stans
There are people claiming Snape's sexist? In my mind he's been surrounded by women his whole life. His mother, Lily, Narcissa, McGonagall. Say we don't know anything about his relationship with his mother, but his interactions with the other three suggest he at least respected them (and in Lily's case... She was at the very least his closest friend).
Even if we discard this as headcanon, isn't Hermione the one that suffered the least of his remarks?
Quote from Salvyus on August 17, 2023, 3:06 amQuote from Naaga on August 17, 2023, 12:47 amSource: The Snape being Sexist headcanons are genuinely?
the snape being sexist headcanons are genuinely hilarious because theres nothing in canon to support them but on the other hand you have the marauders, one who threatens a girl to date him and sees her like a prize to win, one with severe mommy issues, who keeps ignoring and cutting off hermione whenever she talks sense, who beefs with mrs weasley acting like she doesnt have an entire family shes worried about, and one who ditches his pregnant wife. But theyre the woke feminists...right.
Right? Isn't it funny how much overlap there is between:
- fans who claim that the guy who was best friends with a girl for years, who made a nickname for himself out of his mother's maiden name, who had a specifically female patronus, and who pulled through what happened in the chapter Spinner's End with dignity, was a raging misogynist
And
- fans who claim that the group of traditionally masculine, sporty bros who were popular kids in the 70s, are known to emasculate and bully boys who they see as beneath them and one of whom tried to harass a girl into going on a date with him while another got cold feet and almost abandoned his pregnant wife, were feminists, the ultimate allies for women and minorities and warriors against toxic masculinity.
...
Really? These are your feminist heroes?
I'm really trying not to come off as too anti-Marauders on Tumblr, I don't hate them as characters, but I'm not going to pretend that the popular "sEnSiTivE fEmiNisT bOis uwu" fanon of them doesn't feel like utter bullshit.
On the other hand I kind of understand why it's such a big thing, because a lot of these fans/fanfic authors seem to be pretty young (as if I'm not 20 haha), and it's obvious that this is the fans/authors projecting their own battles HARD on the characters and the world. If the Marauders are your favorite characters, of course you'll want them to be on your side. You want Sirius and Remus to have been at Stonewall (notice the conspicuous change in country), you want James to be an outspoken warrior against sexist attitudes, you want to see Marauders who are comfortably in touch with their emotions to break down masculine stereotypes, et cetera, because those are the things that you would fight for and want your friends to fight for.
I 100% get it.
But.
As an AFAB, I just genuinely don't buy that the canon Marauders, especially as teenagers, would have been "woke" feminists. In my view, they are like... probably the most accurate representation of (casual) toxic masculinity in the series. And it doesn't make them all bad, especially considering that these books were written in the 90s and reflect the attitudes of those times. In the end, it's just one of the many, many different flaws people can have.
Like for example, there are so many headcanons of the Marauders crossdressing casually, because omg you go kweeeens fuck gender roles. But... canon Remus used crossdressing as a joke, to humiliate a colleague. How woke is it to laugh at a man you forced into women's clothing?
This all isn't to say that Snape is overall less toxic than the Marauders, but his toxicity is not all that gendered in nature, if that's the correct way to say it. His toxicity and bullying doesn't seem to be so much based on gender roles, compared to Sirius and James' - if anything, he seems to kind of resent masculine gender expectations, obviously struggling to fit them himself.
It all comes down to the fact that there is no canon evidence of the Marauders being feminists, while there is canon evidence of Severus NOT being a misogynist. I guess that's why it's so weird that those headcanons are as popular as they are.
Friendly reminder that the marauders are not saints, in fact they were pretty much assholes with huge prejudices 🙂
#Marauder-critical #Not for Marauder stans
There are people claiming Snape's sexist? In my mind he's been surrounded by women his whole life. His mother, Lily, Narcissa, McGonagall. Say we don't know anything about his relationship with his mother, but his interactions with the other three suggest he at least respected them (and in Lily's case... She was at the very least his closest friend).
Even if we discard this as headcanon, isn't Hermione the one that suffered the least of his remarks?
Unfortunately this sexist Snape comes in Marauders centric fics where Snape is portrayed a devil irredeemable bastard.
Even in most Snape neutral marauder fics tend to portray him as sexist, someone who is possessive of Lily, hates miniskirts and super conservative in mindset. Even the so called insult 'incel' and friendzone are based on misogynist notions.
The insults Snape used towards females in canon were not based on misogyny. He called Petunia a muggle, Lily a mudblood in rage and Hermione a know it all (which even Ron called her) and remark on teeth (he was being an asshole and not misogynist). Marauder stans tend to make him sexist to make their favs champions of LGBTQ community, woke culture activists etc but in reality they were classic examples of Toxic Hypermasculanity.
Marauder stans tend to make him sexist to make their favs champions of LGBTQ community, woke culture activists etc but in reality they were classic examples of Toxic Hypermasculanity.
THIS!
There's nothing remotely feminist about James: a guy who bullied a girl's best guy friend out of jealousy and to get her attention. Granted, I kinda see Lily as portrayed to be playing hard to get with him as well which is again this outdated notion of how when a woman says 'yes' she means 'yes' and when she says 'no' she means 'yes, but try harder' and that's just something that has always driven me up a wall. The idea that a woman couldn't possibly reject the advancements of a man and that she is desperate for male attention is just disgusting.
One thing about Snape's behavior as a man that impresses me was his ability to accept no for an answer. Lily tells him that they have gone down different paths and she implies that she will only have him back if he leaves his friends behind but he refuses to do that and leaves. Some complain that he should have tried harder but he wasn't ready to let go of dark magic and the Death Eaters but at the same time he did not try to change Lily's mind on the matter either, he accepted her rejection. He didn't bully her into doing what he wanted her to.
He loved her all his life afterwards but so what? I don't know but many from my generation think that his undying love is very sweet and romantic. What's creepy about having feelings for someone even if it is unrequited? He never forced himself on her and left her when she told him to. The fact that Sirius and Remus never use Snape's feelings for Lily to make fun of him and give Harry further reasons for why his father disliked Snape does show us that the Marauders probably never figured out how much Lily actually meant to Snape. No matter how strong his feelings were, he wasn't a creepy stalker or unhealthily clingy...ok fine the latter may be true to a little extent but I would call it unhealthy attachment style.
And I liked the point about Snape's mother as well. He associates more with his maternal legacy than the paternal one, going so far as to make up a pen name based on his mother's maiden name.
Despite the cruel remark about Hermione's teeth and calling her a know-it-all, Snape doesn't seem to have ever graded her unfairly. I also don't think that he was annoyed with her know-it-all behavior because she is a girl and doesn't want to have a female's input in class but rather because she was disruptive and lacked the creativity he himself has. Hermione is booksmart but lacks the creative genius Severus has. I have heard and seen multiple anecdotes of women and girls who were openly told by male teachers that they are not capable of mathematics or STEM subjects in general because they're female...that's sexism. Yep, Snape bullied his students but he was actually always much meaner to the boys than the girls. I also see the teeth remark as his personal retaliation for being set on fire, stolen from, and knocked out by her.
I have long said that when Snape haters say to his fans that "you only think he was good because of Alan Rickman" and that "he was way worse in the books" and some other jazz about not realizing how bad he was blah blah blah. In reality, it's often the opposite and they just don't see it. His haters tack on negative things that there is no proof of, like motivates that are not necessarily true, to reflect their own biases. Then treat them as fact and make him out to be much worse then he was written.
You see them blow tiny things way out of proportion. Like when Harry describes Snape as greedy when he was watching her from the bushes, they take that to mean he was a disgusting stalker. When in reality he was a lonely nine-year-old who was longing for a friend.
They see him dropping a branch on Petunia's head and they think he purposely wanted to hurt Muggles because he was already pure evil. When in reality he was a kid who had just been insulted and he had a bout of accidental magic just like Harry had done on more than one occasion.
I could go on and on about debunking theories that his haters take as fact, there are so many instances where they try to make him out as purely evil and the most selfish character in the whole series and I think that the whole sexist thing is exactly that. Them tacking on traits that they find evil to make him even more the evil person they crave hating.
I think that Snape haters often lack the ability to step away from Harry's POV and see what characters really look like, not just Harry's perspective of them. I also think that they might have had a mean teacher in their history and therefore refuse to believe that a teacher that acted mean or rude towards a student could be anything but a terrible human that is to be hated. Either that or they were at one point the object of unwanted affection and they despised the person who liked them, finding their feelings creepy or uncomfortable. Then whenever they see a character that has unrequited love they are reminded of that creepy person in their life and think the character is like that too.
For me, I've had some creepy guy do that to me and I've also had a few not-so-nice teachers. But I also have experienced unrequited love (which I've long moved on from) but I still know exactly how it feels to love someone so very much and not have those feelings returned. It makes me more sympathetic towards characters that experience something like that.
I also think I experience something similar to the bias Snape haters might be feeling but toward the Marauders instead. I remember bullies who acted similar to them and I absolutely despised anyone who acted like that. This is likely why I have a hard time swallowing that they changed their ways and became wonderful people.
I probably do have bias toward the Marauders but that's ok because I am A ok with hating them 🙃
