Weekly Discussion: Favoritism
I agree with @giosnape. I wish Severus and Minerva were besties and he had a good relationship with staff, but his relationship was established on the trust bestowed upon him by Dumbledore and thus, was an extension of Dumbledore's trust which shattered when he killed Dumbledore.
At most, they can be called close colleagues; however, they are definitely not friends.
I love reading about Severus' friendship with other staff members in fanfics, especially Minerva but also Flitwick and Pomona. But as has been mentioned, canon is very different. I guess the only thing Snape received from the staff members was professional respect and we all can relate to having a colleague we thoroughly dislike but we would never let that show too much at work.
When Snape killed Dumbledore, no one was surprised that HE did it but what shocked them was the fact that a great and wise wizard like Dumbledore could have made such a grave mistake and put his trust in the wrong person. How could Snape have fooled Dumbledore into trusting him, not how could Snape betray us like this. Reading that, I was quite disappointed and that makes his death so much sadder, he never had anyone in his life who truly liked him.
Quote from Naaga on June 21, 2023, 6:01 amToday's discussion: What do you think about Snape's relationship with other Hogwarts staff members?
Very reserved, withdrawn, and distant.
With Severus' role, he couldn't really afford to get too close, with the notion that he might one day have to betray them.
Given that aside, we don't get to see much of his interactions with other professors on a personal level, except for academic purposes. But I like to think he and Minerva had a fun snarky banter kind of friendship, and I think Minerva - despite her line in HBP about him after he killed Dumbledore - she may have been one of the few to get to know him. Obviously not completely, but enough. On a colleague basis, I think she was one of the closest to him, aside from Albus.
Charity Burbage on the other hand...They must have spoken often enough for her to even consider Severus a friend. That's a big word for anyone to admit of Severus, and I wish we had more backstory on her or her friendship with him. We don't know what her blood status is, but for her to teach Muggle Studies, she would have had to be either Muggleborn or Half-Blood. Either one seems to be rather poetic for him to connect with, and with the subject she teaches...I feel like she is such a hidden gem that we deserved to know more of.
Poppy would have been a kindred soul with Severus since they'd have to interact the most together being Potions Master and Healer.
Hagrid seems to be rather fond of him, as he is always quick to defend him against accusations made by the Trio.
But, conclusively, Severus would have been careful to get too close to either of them and keep it strictly professional. His mission was indeed an isolated one, so I suspect he did that for their protection.
I agree with @sanctuaryangel, @kris and @giosnape about the nature of relationship between Snape and other Hogwarts staff. I have nothing to add there and completely agree with your views.
All I'm going to add is one person who is often underrated in his relationship with Snape whether in discussions, fics or Metas, the person I am taking about is Horace Slughorn. Lines taken from Snape and Slughorn Discussion.
Slughorn goes from being Snape's Head of House and teacher in 1971-1978, to being his colleague in 1981 and again in 1996 (with Snape now the Head of Slytherin), to being his reluctant subordinate when Snape becomes Headmaster in 1997. So much of their relationship, especially as teacher and student, is left up to supposition because we don't have that information in the books, but I wanted to list some stuff we do know about them that I find interesting:
- "Snape," ejaculated Slughorn, who looked the most shaken, pale and sweating. "Snape! I taught him! I thought I knew him!"
The famous "ejaculated Slughorn" line is one that I really like in spite of the unfortunate wording. Slughorn is stated to be the most affected by the news that Snape killed Dumbledore. He's the only person to give personal reasons for his shock as opposed to being shocked because Dumbledore trusted Snape. Slughorn is the only one to say he taught Snape and thought he knew him in spite of his roughly 15 year absence from teaching (presumably they hadn't been meeting up, right?) and in spite of the fact that Snape had been with the rest of the Hogwarts faculty since 1981. Contrast Slughorn's reaction with McGonagall's line: "We all wondered...but he trusted...always...Snape...I can't believe it." She taught Snape too, should theoretically know him better because she has known him longer, yet her reaction speaks more about Dumbledore's trust in Snape than her own.
- Snape and Slughorn have extremely different styles as teachers and Heads of House. Slughorn, for all his more affable nature, doesn't bother remembering his students' names, while Snape, for all his strict and harsh methods, his high expectations from all his students. No one escapes his notice, even though they might want to. Slughorn, even as a Head of House, had a private club open to all students who were well-connected enough or promising enough to catch his attention. In HBP, we're shown he's not beyond snubbing those who don't seem good prospects. In contrast, Snape allegedly favors his whole house over the rest of the school. If there's anything Snape mimicked about Slughorn as a teacher or Head of Slytherin, we're never shown it.
- "...Slughorn threw out an arm and seemed to scoop Snape out of thin air toward them. "Stop sulking and come and join us, Severus!"...Trapped, with Slughorn's arm around him shoulders, Snape looked down..."
Snape never appears to have the same affection for Slughorn that Slughorn has for him, let alone any affection for Slughorn so it's hard to say what Snape thought of him. That doesn't stop Slughorn from liking Snape, although we don't know what their dynamics were like as student and teacher.
- Snape and Slughorn both have histories of guilt and shame. Slughorn avoids giving Harry his memory of Tom Riddle because he is afraid Harry and others will think badly of him. Harry eventually gets him drunk and persuades him to share the memory. Snape gives Harry memories of his own that he has hidden away, revealing "the best" of himself as Dumbledore might put it. He doesn't hesitate to show his Dark Mark to the Minister of Magic, and is perfectly fine with people thinking badly of him, even when they are mistaken (Dumbledore's murder).
- JKR's supplementary writings say Slughorn left teaching in 1981, which would mean he didn't finish the 1981-1982 school year. Most likely, Snape replaced Slughorn as Head of Slytherin and the sole Potions teacher at the age of 21/22. I wonder how he felt about Slughorn leaving him with that responsibility.
P.S :
I would also like to point out that Slughorn thought of Snape as his best student in potions, not Lily who was his favourite student.
‘Well, then, it’s natural ability!’ shouted Slughorn. ‘You should have seen what he gave me, first lesson, the Draught of Living Death – never had a student produce finer on a first attempt, I don’t think even you, Severus –’
5. Today's discussion: Do you think Snape's parents, either both or one of them were alive by the time of Snape's death?
The thing is, we don't know. There is no canon evidence of either of his parents being dead or alive.
Most fanfics usually have dead parents for plot convenience.
While some people argue that him living alone in his parent's house is proof of their death, it is not a convincing argument. For all we know, they could have moved out of their home, been admitted into hospitals, or moved to their parents/Severus' grandparents' home, leaving the house's deed in Severus' name.
Fic writers can go with either dead or alive parents for the lack of canon evidence surrounding their existence during the Trio era.
Quote from Naaga on June 22, 2023, 4:42 amToday's discussion: Do you think Snape's parents, either both or one of them were alive by the time of Snape's death?
Partially, no.
I believe - and this is my headcanon - that when Severus was in the middle of his schooling, Eileen ended her life, leaving Tobias to leave and abandon his son. I think, with Severus gone, it was just her and her husband, and I know we do not know the extent of the abuse, but perhaps it escalated to a point where it was too much for her. I do not think Tobias murdered her and was incarcerated, but I think once Eileen felt her son was safe at Hogwarts, she felt powerless to do anything else.
It may have left her with no other escape of her own.
Of course, we have barely a shred of information about them, only what we saw in Severus' memories and small pieces of info in HBP.
As @kris mentioned, we have no clue. In his memories, Snape's parents are not prominently featured especially after his childhood. We know that his father seems to be an unpleasant fellow and fanfics often portray him as an abusive alcoholic. We know that Snape has all his magic knowledge from Eileen but when she sees him off at King's Cross, she does not appear to be a very loving mother. There's no hug or goodbye kisses, no write as soon as you arrive there or a simple take care of yourself and make me proud. She seems like she is there to do the bare minimum required of her. If Tobias was verbally and physically abusive, Eileen was neglectful. I don't think he had a close and emotional relationship with either of his parents but Eileen was simply the lesser evil and therefore favored.
My headcanon is rather dark and violent and most of you won't like it. It's very possible that Snape lives alone because his parents either died or are in nursing homes but I believe he murdered them. We never see what his Death Eater initiation looks like and how a half-blood is accepted among blood purists but given that Voldemort killed Tom Riddle Sr., I imagine he would demand the same of his half-blood followers. Such a condition has very symbolic importance, by killing his muggle parent, Severus distances and purifies himself from his dirty blood and Eileen's death would be punishment for blood treason and for tainting her child's blood in the first place by mingling with a dirty and unworthy muggle.
Quote from Naaga on June 22, 2023, 4:42 amToday's discussion: Do you think Snape's parents, either both or one of them were alive by the time of Snape's death?
I don't think so.
I think they both died tragically.
Tobias because of alcohol, maybe an accident while drunk? And Eileen from her depression maybe a fatal cocktail of drugs.
That would also explain why there is no one at Spinner's End.
Quote from Naaga on June 22, 2023, 4:42 amToday's discussion: Do you think Snape's parents, either both or one of them were alive by the time of Snape's death?
I think Eileen died early on in the middle of Severus's schooling before the werewolf incident.
Dumbledore felt too comfortable and sure of himself that Severus wouldn't breath a word of Lupin's affliction to anyone. I think after Eileen's death, Tobias made it clear to the school never to reach him again about Severus which Dumbledore may have taken it as the boy fending for himself.
And in the case of the werewolf incident, Dumbledore would have been able to pressure Severus into not saying anything if he didn't have someone who cared at home. There was no Eileen Severus could use as a cover of protection when the bullying increased after the Marauders became animagus, and later created the map. No Eileen to sway him from joining the Death Eaters.
In regards to Tobias, I don't think Voldemort would have accepted Severus into the inner circle if Tobias were still alive. He was see Tobias as having way too much control and preense of mind in Severus's life. Voldemort would have wanted to be Severus' sole Master. Voldemort would have no restraints making requests of his inner circle. Voldemort would have seen killing Tobias as liberating for Severus. I think he would have asked Severus to kill him if Tobias were still alive, which we know he didn't do because Severus asked Dumbledore in the Prince's Tale about the harm to his soul after being informed Dumbledore would like him to inact mercy and kill him.
Voldemort is quick to bring up the past in the books, he gets pretty hostile when people fail him. I don't see him keeping silent about killing Severus' dad if he did it for Severus. He would probably see it as a favor. If Voldemort killed Tobias he would have dangled it in front of Severus and rubbed it in his face. That's why I don't think he killed him either which leaves me to think that Tobias died shortly after Severus reached adulthood. Severus already had the memories of his past as evidence of his dislike of muggles, that alone could have been enough to get his foot in the deep end.
