Tobias Snape & Eileen Prince
Quote from Shell Cottage on September 3, 2026, 2:11 amQuote from IFFIN on September 2, 2026, 7:58 pmIf you are ever interested in the essay about Spinner's End here is the link:
http://members.madasafish.com/~cj_whitehound/Fanfic/index.htm
woah. haha, this is like Christmas! at least, I'm waking up to how much is already out there in terms of analyzing the HP books...I just skimmed the Spinner's End essay (very interesting!) and am starting on the one about dating when the Potters go into hiding. (I hadn't realized the discrepancy with the timing of Dumbledore borrowing the invisibility cloak until I read Naaga's great analysis of Dumbledore.)
I'm inclined to agree that it does sound like Lily's family was well off enough to live on a significantly nicer side of town. (Though I'm basing that more on my own childhood experience of just how brutally and unforgivingly being from the poor neighborhood determines the assumptions everyone makes about you at school--the same way Petunia does with Snape...I can attest, the shame and humiliation of that never quite leaves you--you feel it so keenly when you're a kid...so I really identify with Snape that way...and I think the sting of six years of feeling poor compared to Lily was just one more factor contributing to the pain that made him lash out and insist he didn't need her help.)
And the implication that Lily was--though not rich, still better off than he was...honestly, I feel like that makes her mean jab about his underwear that much worse.
Sometimes I really wish for a fanfic where kid Snape could have had a real friend...
Dumbledore borrowing the invisibility cloak until I read Naaga's great analysis of Dumbledore.
I have been trying to read it, but it is so long and I keep losing my place. At this time I think that Dumbledore just took the cloak because he knows James might get bored and leave Godric's Hollow. I am assuming that James still left in his animagus form. 😊 Maybe if I read the essay I might see it another way.
That Snape worst memory has so much going on and everyone is going to view it differently. What I get from the author's intent and casual general interpretation is to show Harry that James was not perfect, that Lily found James attractive and Snape is a racist. I also think Lily's comment "I'd wash my pants if I were you"? was to imply that Severus was dirty. As others have brought up, if his pants were dirty they would be more yellow than grey. Grey is an indication that they are old and worn.
Here I deleted my rant of how I hate this scene so much and fanon casual analysis and author's intent. I noticed and you might have that I was starting to go on and on. Well I did but I don't need to bore others with it. 😅
And the implication that Lily was--though not rich, still better off than he was...honestly, I feel like that makes her mean jab about his underwear that much worse.
I also see the scene as Lily commenting on his economic status. I also don't see Lily as coming from a lot of money. I think we see that in Petunia how she wants everything status quo. Also Petunia and Lily play in the park often. I think if they were rich they would have clubs, events, piano lessons and other things people with a lot of money have. I'm not saying that rich people don't go to the park, but I don't think that they would spend hours hanging out there. Which I believe they did for Severus to notice them. I know that an essay by Whitehound on Spnner's End describes where they might have lived better than what I can, since she is from the UK and I am not.
Sometimes I really wish for a fanfic where kid Snape could have had a real friend...
I can understand this.
Quote from Shell Cottage on September 3, 2026, 9:11 am
Guilty. Since Petunia is telling Lily about the letter. I do wonder how much Lily is responsible for that entire situation. I do think Severus is nosy, but I don't see him opening the door and walking into Petunia's room. Granted Petunia and Lily might share a room and Petunia might just call it her room since Lily is leaving for Hogwarts and/or she is the older sister and she said so.
I like your take on the letter!
I am still scratching my head trying to understand how/when Snape saw it.
I tell you it is because he is nosy I say. Nosy. (Here I am quoting some character from an old cartoon or movie.) But I think he is just a curious child and that makes him nosy sometimes. I think him and Harry are a lot like each other when it comes to being curious and wondering what others are up to. Harry was really nosy when it came to Draco. I also think this trait made Snape a good spy. I already brought up that Lily and Petunia might have shared a room, but if they didn't. Lily might have been comfortable enough to go into Petunia's room whenever she wanted to. It might be that Petunia had the record player in her room and it was also Lily's or something of Lily's like a 45, so her and Severus went to get it and he saw the letter, because he is nosy. When he went to use the toilet in their home, he probably looked through the medicine cabinets also.
I do want to add that I think he was nosy about Lupin also. And he probably should have let it go, but I think many people had the same theory and he needed to prove it to himself that it was true or false. I think Sirius reaction was wrong. Wrong to put Severus life in danger and Lupin's and then years later showing no remorse.
Quote from IFFIN on September 3, 2026, 10:45 amThat Snape worst memory has so much going on and everyone is going to view it differently. What I get from the author's intent and casual general interpretation is to show Harry that James was not perfect, that Lily found James attractive and Snape is a racist. I also think Lily's comment "I'd wash my pants if I were you"? was to imply that Severus was dirty. As others have brought up, if his pants were dirty they would be more yellow than grey. Grey is an indication that they are old and worn.
Here I deleted my rant of how I hate this scene so much and fanon casual analysis and author's intent. I noticed and you might have that I was starting to go on and on. Well I did but I don't need to bore others with it.
Feel free to rant any time, haha, I won't mind 😉
"I tell you it is because he is nosy I say. Nosy." That made me laugh.
I think, for me, the things that stand out most about Eileen Prince on the train platform are
- Lily's parents are nearby, but Severus and his mother are clearly not part of their orbit. Lily's parents seem delighted by the magical community, so I think we can rule out the possibility that they would have any prejudices against Eileen for being a witch. If anything, their awe and fascination as they stand gawking on the train platform suggest the opposite: If they knew Eileen was a witch--and not just any witch, but the one and only woman from Cokeworth who has a child heading off to Hogwarts along with their daughter--they would be *very* interested. But for some reason, Severus and Eileen are not on their radar.
- Eileen's 11 year-old child is about to leave home for the first time. No hugs. No sentimentality. No notice of his body language. (Or if she does notice, she isn't concerned.) No warmth. No sense of ''I'll miss you, Severus'' or "I'm happy for you.'' Yes, I know *lots* of parents are like that, especially depending what culture you're from. My mother is very distant and detached that way, too. But that doesn't keep me from asking ''wtf?"
Quote from Shell Cottage on September 4, 2026, 1:10 pmI think, for me, the things that stand out most about Eileen Prince on the train platform are
- Lily's parents are nearby, but Severus and his mother are clearly not part of their orbit. Lily's parents seem delighted by the magical community, so I think we can rule out the possibility that they would have any prejudices against Eileen for being a witch. If anything, their awe and fascination as they stand gawking on the train platform suggest the opposite: If they knew Eileen was a witch--and not just any witch, but the one and only woman from Cokeworth who has a child heading off to Hogwarts along with their daughter--they would be *very* interested. But for some reason, Severus and Eileen are not on their radar.
- Eileen's 11 year-old child is about to leave home for the first time. No hugs. No sentimentality. No notice of his body language. (Or if she does notice, she isn't concerned.) No warmth. No sense of ''I'll miss you, Severus'' or "I'm happy for you.'' Yes, I know *lots* of parents are like that, especially depending what culture you're from. My mother is very distant and detached that way, too. But that doesn't keep me from asking ''wtf?"
To the first point, it's possible they could've known Eileen was a witch (assuming Lily told them about Snape), but the Snape family has some sort of reputation; Petunia makes it a point to identify Snape as "that Snape boy" while looking at him unfavorably, so it could be a case of British classism.
Yes! I've gotta wonder whether Eileen always wears a sour expression...or did Mrs. Evans just shoot her and Severus a disapproving glance.
In other words, maybe we're witnessing the same sleight of hand the author played when Professor Snape misread Harry's grimace the first time he saw him, too.
Or I've just read too many Agatha Christie novels lol.
The Gestalt Prince has done such a brilliant job with Lily's hypocrisy and obliviousness in "Gestaltation"--so this is just me riffing off what he's already done--but I love the irony of Lily glaring at Severus on the train and blaming him for her unhappy parting from Petunia, all the while oblivious to the fact that Severus had exactly *one* person to see him off at the station--his mother--and that wasn't exactly a heartwarming or even remotely comforting farewell either.
And, in my own head canon, I like to imagine that Severus *could* point out to Lily (but of course, he wouldn't, because he never talks back to her, and she never lets him lol) the irony that, when we arrived, Mum seemed okay--she even seemed to brighten up a little at the sight of the train--until your parents saw us and shuffled away...then Mum seemed really depressed and barely said goodbye to me : (
I know it might sound farfetched for me to suspect that Eileen's facial expression is a reaction to something Lily's parents said or did when they saw her and Severus...it's just that I don't think Petunia's attitude comes from nowhere, nor does Lily's swiftness to pronounce judgment.
Quote from Shell Cottage on September 5, 2026, 10:10 amI know it might sound farfetched for me to suspect that Eileen's facial expression is a reaction to something Lily's parents said or did when they saw her and Severus...it's just that I don't think Petunia's attitude comes from nowhere, nor does Lily's swiftness to pronounce judgment.
It doesn't sound farfetched to me. I agree with you that Pentunia's attitude does come from somewhere. When it comes to your gut feeling, I say use that for your headcanon and it is okay others don't see it or feel it. This is fiction and do what makes sense to you.
