Quote from luke on September 8, 2026, 9:47 pm

Quote from IFFIN on September 8, 2026, 6:53 pm

Quote from Shell Cottage on September 8, 2026, 4:42 pm

(sorry, that prolly came out sounding more impassioned than I intended)

No worries. You're just thinking. And I just want to add that when I share my theories that I like I am just sharing. I think everyone is entitled to their own.

"Dumbledore says it's our choices that show who we truly are" I don't agree with that. We all make bad choices. It is us getting up when we have falling and learning. I try not to think too much of Dumbldedore, because of things he does and says. Like not letting Severus tell at least one person about the traumatic experience with a werewolf.

And let potter bragging about The incident to the entire school his version while make snape silent about the secret. It was awful choice of dumbledore. If I was Snape,even if I wont joined death eaters,I will never joined dumbledore orders,because he deliberately shown he cannot be fair and good teacher

Quote from Shell Cottage on September 8, 2026, 9:57 pm

Hehe, okay, just because I like to play devil's advocate, here's my best case for how one can argue for downplaying Snape's childhood memory of his mother cowering:

By the time Harry sees that memory in Book 5, we can assume Snape as a master Occlumens has arranged/organized/manipulated his own mind specifically to be perused by Voldemort.  One could argue that the series of memories Harry taps into by accident are actually cherry-picked by Snape and stored so as to be summoned easily by a legilimens, precisely for the purpose of giving Voldemort a false sense of confidence about the effectiveness of Snape's grooming when he was recruited as a teen.

So it *could* be not necessarily that Eileen was repeatedly abused, just Snape using a one-off memory to sell to Voldemort.

Quote from Shell Cottage on September 8, 2026, 10:24 pm

And hence (one could theoretically argue) that would explain why Snape isn't angry when Harry sees these memories...they support the image Snape wants Voldemort to see--that of a poor boy from an abusive home who choses loyalty to the Dark Lord over Dumbledore precisely because Death Eaters like Lucius were there for him during those vulnerable years when Dumbledore let him down.

Quote from IFFIN on September 8, 2026, 10:47 pm

One thing I wondered how Snape didn't care that Harry saw those memories. I guess I just grew up in that environment of my parents fighting. My dad never hit my mother. Just a lot of yelling. I do remember one time my mother was with her head down like she was cowering. She usually fought back. But my mom had sold my dad's junk car for $75. My brother, sister and I remember  him yelling $75 dollars over and over and my mom just had her head down and didn't say anything. She usually did. We were outside listening to the fight and were frightened. Then our dad got a lawn chair and threw it. We lived in a rural area so we were far away. All three of us started laughing. We started calling my dad the $75 Dollar Man, because the TV show The Six Million Dollar Man was popular then. After my dad calmed down we let him in on the joke. I know dysfunctional, toxic, but I have never met any family that wasn't if you hang around with them long enough. I am not telling this story for pity, but just to prove your theory.

Maybe Tobias is upset because Eileen allows little Severus to go out dressed like that. "Why are sending my boy out looking like a Nancy boy!" I also can understand her letting him. I think about when I was a child and I dirtied my clothes very easily. There is one picture of me when I was a child where I am barefooted with mud or dirt on my legs and clothes and my hair everywhere. Remember a lot of children spent a lot of time outside. Making mud pies, digging dirt, drinking river water when we were told not to, playing in old cars, collecting tadpoles in mud puddles a lot of stuff that gets a kid dirty .

I do think that Snape did cherry pick what thoughts floated on top. I think that he didn't modified anything, because I think that Voldemort would be able to tell.  I think Snape let the lake scene be on top because it was one that proved to Voldemort that others didn't like him for being a muggle born hater. And that is why he had to put it in the pensive, because he didn't want Harry to see it, but also didn't want to bury it too deep that Voldemort.  I don't know how the memories work, so it my own head canon.

I feel like I rambled a lot. But I like to analyze, but I believe that in the end it will be the stories that will shape the Harry Potter world and not the major analysis.  I don't think that many people care that Dorothy's shoes are supposed to be silver and not sparkly ruby red. Granted good analysis helps writing fanfiction

 

Quote from luke on September 9, 2026, 12:11 am

Quote from IFFIN on September 8, 2026, 10:47 pm

One thing I wondered how Snape didn't care that Harry saw those memories. I guess I just grew up in that environment of my parents fighting. My dad never hit my mother. Just a lot of yellowing. I do remember one time my mother was with her head down like she was cowering. She usually fought back. But my mom had sold my dad's junk car for $75. My brother, sister and I remember  him yelling $75 dollars over and over and my mom just had her head down and didn't say anything. She usually did. We were outside listening to the fight and were frightened. Then our dad got a lawn chair and threw it. We lived in a rural area so we were far away. All three of us started laughing. We started calling my dad the $75 Dollar Man, because the TV show The Six Million Dollar Man was popular then. After my dad calmed down we let him in on the joke. I know dysfunctional, toxic, but I have never met any family that wasn't if you hang around with them long enough. I am not telling this story for pity, but just to prove your theory.

Maybe Tobias is upset because Eileen allows little Severus to go out dressed like that. "Why are sending my boy out looking like a Nancy boy!" I also can understand her letting him. I think about when I was a child and I dirtied my clothes very easily. There is one picture of me when I was a child where I am barefooted with mud or dirt on my legs and clothes and my hair everywhere. Remember a lot of children spent a lot of time outside. Making mud pies, digging dirt, drinking river water when we were told not to, playing in old cars, collecting tadpoles in mud puddles a lot of stuff that gets a kid dirty .

I do think that Snape did cherry pick what thoughts floated on top. I think that he didn't modified anything, because I think that Voldemort would be able to tell.  I think Snape let the lake scene be on top because it was one that proved to Voldemort that others didn't like him for being a muggle born hater. And that is why he had to put it in the pensive, because he didn't want Harry to see it, but also didn't want to bury it too deep that Voldemort.  I don't know how the memories work, so it my own head canon.

I feel like I rambled a lot. But I like to analyze, but I believe that in the end it will be the stories that will shape the Harry Potter world and not the major analysis.  I don't think that many people care that Dorothy's shoes are supposed to be silver and not sparkly ruby red. Granted good analysis helps writing fanfiction

 

Not at all i felt you rambled a lot. In fact,just keep revealed your thought. I am not born in that era,but My dad was. But I lived in south east asia,which is culturally very different from the west :).

 

In fact,it was a good thought. Why? Because culture of 1960s-1970s is very different compared to today. I do felt Tobias is not a Good father, because snape saying that his dad "He does not like anything,Much"  and severus never proud to be called snape.

But I do felt Eileen is Not cowered wife either. She readily talked back to tobias if tobias is anggry. And snape saying that "they fight a lot" instead of "my dad always bellowed at Mother for slight mistake",So I think even thought eileen is always getting hit or screamed,she will not cowered to mere muggle

Quote from IFFIN on September 9, 2026, 8:54 am

Quote from luke on September 9, 2026, 12:11 am

Quote from IFFIN on September 8, 2026, 10:47 pm

One thing I wondered how Snape didn't care that Harry saw those memories. I guess I just grew up in that environment of my parents fighting. My dad never hit my mother. Just a lot of yellowing. I do remember one time my mother was with her head down like she was cowering. She usually fought back. But my mom had sold my dad's junk car for $75. My brother, sister and I remember  him yelling $75 dollars over and over and my mom just had her head down and didn't say anything. She usually did. We were outside listening to the fight and were frightened. Then our dad got a lawn chair and threw it. We lived in a rural area so we were far away. All three of us started laughing. We started calling my dad the $75 Dollar Man, because the TV show The Six Million Dollar Man was popular then. After my dad calmed down we let him in on the joke. I know dysfunctional, toxic, but I have never met any family that wasn't if you hang around with them long enough. I am not telling this story for pity, but just to prove your theory.

Maybe Tobias is upset because Eileen allows little Severus to go out dressed like that. "Why are sending my boy out looking like a Nancy boy!" I also can understand her letting him. I think about when I was a child and I dirtied my clothes very easily. There is one picture of me when I was a child where I am barefooted with mud or dirt on my legs and clothes and my hair everywhere. Remember a lot of children spent a lot of time outside. Making mud pies, digging dirt, drinking river water when we were told not to, playing in old cars, collecting tadpoles in mud puddles a lot of stuff that gets a kid dirty .

I do think that Snape did cherry pick what thoughts floated on top. I think that he didn't modified anything, because I think that Voldemort would be able to tell.  I think Snape let the lake scene be on top because it was one that proved to Voldemort that others didn't like him for being a muggle born hater. And that is why he had to put it in the pensive, because he didn't want Harry to see it, but also didn't want to bury it too deep that Voldemort.  I don't know how the memories work, so it my own head canon.

I feel like I rambled a lot. But I like to analyze, but I believe that in the end it will be the stories that will shape the Harry Potter world and not the major analysis.  I don't think that many people care that Dorothy's shoes are supposed to be silver and not sparkly ruby red. Granted good analysis helps writing fanfiction

 

Not at all i felt you rambled a lot. In fact,just keep revealed your thought. I am not born in that era,but My dad was. But I lived in south east asia,which is culturally very different from the west :).

 

In fact,it was a good thought. Why? Because culture of 1960s-1970s is very different compared to today. I do felt Tobias is not a Good father, because snape saying that his dad "He does not like anything,Much"  and severus never proud to be called snape.

But I do felt Eileen is Not cowered wife either. She readily talked back to tobias if tobias is anggry. And snape saying that "they fight a lot" instead of "my dad always bellowed at Mother for slight mistake",So I think even thought eileen is always getting hit or screamed,she will not cowered to mere muggle

I think you bring up a good point that "they fight a lot" shows that Eileen did fight back. I don't recall anything in the books that show that either Severus or Eileen were physically abused. But if that is what people want in their headcanon I am not going to say they shouldn't. I know JKR says something about a belt, and I personally take a lot of JKR quotes with a grain of salt because what needs to be considered is when the quotes were said and where. But recording the belt in that time period wasn't considered abuse to use it. I am not here to debate if it was right or wrong, I am just pointing out what was accepted.

And about Tobias not being a "not a Good father" again you are allowed to interpret  how you want and I am not out to change anyone's mind. But I do want to point out that during that time what many men considered what made a good father was to have a job and provide a roof over their family's head and food. I know it is debatable if Tobias did that, but I also go back to Severus living in the house in the 6th book. I assume Tobias owned it at some time and that he worked for it.  As for "He does not like anything,Much", I take it that he was just complaining like the stereotypical father at that time. I will link some videos about that from TV shows. But I also take it that Severus might have asked his father after work or the weekends to play with him and his father just pulled out a beer and said no I don't want to, because he was tired and wanted to rest. Yes, it is something that hurt these children but it isn't done out of malice on the father's part, because they thought they were doing what they were supposed to do. In the 1980s there were a lot of movies about sons reconciling with their father's lack of attention and love. One popular one was Field of Dreams. To bring this back to my interpretation of Severus, I do believe that it is the author's intent that  Tobias played a role in him joining the Death Eaters and his muggle prejudices. And if it works for others that is great, but for me he is a child  with prejudices and parent issues, which I think many children deal with. I think Severus joining the Death Eaters has more to do with how Hogwarts was.

Quote from luke on September 9, 2026, 12:27 pm

Quote from IFFIN on September 9, 2026, 8:54 am

Quote from luke on September 9, 2026, 12:11 am

Quote from IFFIN on September 8, 2026, 10:47 pm

One thing I wondered how Snape didn't care that Harry saw those memories. I guess I just grew up in that environment of my parents fighting. My dad never hit my mother. Just a lot of yellowing. I do remember one time my mother was with her head down like she was cowering. She usually fought back. But my mom had sold my dad's junk car for $75. My brother, sister and I remember  him yelling $75 dollars over and over and my mom just had her head down and didn't say anything. She usually did. We were outside listening to the fight and were frightened. Then our dad got a lawn chair and threw it. We lived in a rural area so we were far away. All three of us started laughing. We started calling my dad the $75 Dollar Man, because the TV show The Six Million Dollar Man was popular then. After my dad calmed down we let him in on the joke. I know dysfunctional, toxic, but I have never met any family that wasn't if you hang around with them long enough. I am not telling this story for pity, but just to prove your theory.

Maybe Tobias is upset because Eileen allows little Severus to go out dressed like that. "Why are sending my boy out looking like a Nancy boy!" I also can understand her letting him. I think about when I was a child and I dirtied my clothes very easily. There is one picture of me when I was a child where I am barefooted with mud or dirt on my legs and clothes and my hair everywhere. Remember a lot of children spent a lot of time outside. Making mud pies, digging dirt, drinking river water when we were told not to, playing in old cars, collecting tadpoles in mud puddles a lot of stuff that gets a kid dirty .

I do think that Snape did cherry pick what thoughts floated on top. I think that he didn't modified anything, because I think that Voldemort would be able to tell.  I think Snape let the lake scene be on top because it was one that proved to Voldemort that others didn't like him for being a muggle born hater. And that is why he had to put it in the pensive, because he didn't want Harry to see it, but also didn't want to bury it too deep that Voldemort.  I don't know how the memories work, so it my own head canon.

I feel like I rambled a lot. But I like to analyze, but I believe that in the end it will be the stories that will shape the Harry Potter world and not the major analysis.  I don't think that many people care that Dorothy's shoes are supposed to be silver and not sparkly ruby red. Granted good analysis helps writing fanfiction

 

Not at all i felt you rambled a lot. In fact,just keep revealed your thought. I am not born in that era,but My dad was. But I lived in south east asia,which is culturally very different from the west :).

 

In fact,it was a good thought. Why? Because culture of 1960s-1970s is very different compared to today. I do felt Tobias is not a Good father, because snape saying that his dad "He does not like anything,Much"  and severus never proud to be called snape.

But I do felt Eileen is Not cowered wife either. She readily talked back to tobias if tobias is anggry. And snape saying that "they fight a lot" instead of "my dad always bellowed at Mother for slight mistake",So I think even thought eileen is always getting hit or screamed,she will not cowered to mere muggle

I think you bring up a good point that "they fight a lot" shows that Eileen did fight back. I don't recall anything in the books that show that either Severus or Eileen were physically abused. But if that is what people want in their headcanon I am not going to say they shouldn't. I know JKR says something about a belt, and I personally take a lot of JKR quotes with a grain of salt because what needs to be considered is when the quotes were said and where. But recording the belt in that time period wasn't considered abuse to use it. I am not here to debate if it was right or wrong, I am just pointing out what was accepted.

And about Tobias not being a "not a Good father" again you are allowed to interpret  how you want and I am not out to change anyone's mind. But I do want to point out that during that time what many men considered what made a good father was to have a job and provide a roof over their family's head and food. I know it is debatable if Tobias did that, but I also go back to Severus living in the house in the 6th book. I assume Tobias owned it at some time and that he worked for it.  As for "He does not like anything,Much", I take it that he was just complaining like the stereotypical father at that time. I will link some videos about that from TV shows. But I also take it that Severus might have asked his father after work or the weekends to play with him and his father just pulled out a beer and said no I don't want to, because he was tired and wanted to rest. Yes, it is something that hurt these children but it isn't done out of malice on the father's part, because they thought they were doing what they were supposed to do. In the 1980s there were a lot of movies about sons reconciling with their father's lack of attention and love. One popular one was Field of Dreams. To bring this back to my interpretation of Severus, I do believe that it is the author's intent that  Tobias played a role in him joining the Death Eaters and his muggle prejudices. And if it works for others that is great, but for me he is a child  with prejudices and parent issues, which I think many children deal with. I think Severus joining the Death Eaters has more to do with how Hogwarts was.

Okay,I will split into two answer because its too long

 

We did not see physical abuse aimed toward severus and eileen. But when tobias was anggry, child severus  crying in corner during occlumency lesson with harry. If i knew,if parents row,they will not cowered. They will locked thenrselved in their room, or trying to calm their parent or anggry at atheir parents fight

Child severus crying in corner (in my theory) is because he fight back during tobias anger fit and got screamed as return and as result he crying in corner. Eileen didnt trying to comfort severus and just talking back is sign the tobias is dominant and eileen is the weaker one yet will not cowered

Quote from luke on September 9, 2026, 12:34 pm

Quote from IFFIN on September 9, 2026, 8:54 am

Quote from luke on September 9, 2026, 12:11 am

Quote from IFFIN on September 8, 2026, 10:47 pm

One thing I wondered how Snape didn't care that Harry saw those memories. I guess I just grew up in that environment of my parents fighting. My dad never hit my mother. Just a lot of yellowing. I do remember one time my mother was with her head down like she was cowering. She usually fought back. But my mom had sold my dad's junk car for $75. My brother, sister and I remember  him yelling $75 dollars over and over and my mom just had her head down and didn't say anything. She usually did. We were outside listening to the fight and were frightened. Then our dad got a lawn chair and threw it. We lived in a rural area so we were far away. All three of us started laughing. We started calling my dad the $75 Dollar Man, because the TV show The Six Million Dollar Man was popular then. After my dad calmed down we let him in on the joke. I know dysfunctional, toxic, but I have never met any family that wasn't if you hang around with them long enough. I am not telling this story for pity, but just to prove your theory.

Maybe Tobias is upset because Eileen allows little Severus to go out dressed like that. "Why are sending my boy out looking like a Nancy boy!" I also can understand her letting him. I think about when I was a child and I dirtied my clothes very easily. There is one picture of me when I was a child where I am barefooted with mud or dirt on my legs and clothes and my hair everywhere. Remember a lot of children spent a lot of time outside. Making mud pies, digging dirt, drinking river water when we were told not to, playing in old cars, collecting tadpoles in mud puddles a lot of stuff that gets a kid dirty .

I do think that Snape did cherry pick what thoughts floated on top. I think that he didn't modified anything, because I think that Voldemort would be able to tell.  I think Snape let the lake scene be on top because it was one that proved to Voldemort that others didn't like him for being a muggle born hater. And that is why he had to put it in the pensive, because he didn't want Harry to see it, but also didn't want to bury it too deep that Voldemort.  I don't know how the memories work, so it my own head canon.

I feel like I rambled a lot. But I like to analyze, but I believe that in the end it will be the stories that will shape the Harry Potter world and not the major analysis.  I don't think that many people care that Dorothy's shoes are supposed to be silver and not sparkly ruby red. Granted good analysis helps writing fanfiction

 

Not at all i felt you rambled a lot. In fact,just keep revealed your thought. I am not born in that era,but My dad was. But I lived in south east asia,which is culturally very different from the west :).

 

In fact,it was a good thought. Why? Because culture of 1960s-1970s is very different compared to today. I do felt Tobias is not a Good father, because snape saying that his dad "He does not like anything,Much"  and severus never proud to be called snape.

But I do felt Eileen is Not cowered wife either. She readily talked back to tobias if tobias is anggry. And snape saying that "they fight a lot" instead of "my dad always bellowed at Mother for slight mistake",So I think even thought eileen is always getting hit or screamed,she will not cowered to mere muggle

I think you bring up a good point that "they fight a lot" shows that Eileen did fight back. I don't recall anything in the books that show that either Severus or Eileen were physically abused. But if that is what people want in their headcanon I am not going to say they shouldn't. I know JKR says something about a belt, and I personally take a lot of JKR quotes with a grain of salt because what needs to be considered is when the quotes were said and where. But recording the belt in that time period wasn't considered abuse to use it. I am not here to debate if it was right or wrong, I am just pointing out what was accepted.

And about Tobias not being a "not a Good father" again you are allowed to interpret  how you want and I am not out to change anyone's mind. But I do want to point out that during that time what many men considered what made a good father was to have a job and provide a roof over their family's head and food. I know it is debatable if Tobias did that, but I also go back to Severus living in the house in the 6th book. I assume Tobias owned it at some time and that he worked for it.  As for "He does not like anything,Much", I take it that he was just complaining like the stereotypical father at that time. I will link some videos about that from TV shows. But I also take it that Severus might have asked his father after work or the weekends to play with him and his father just pulled out a beer and said no I don't want to, because he was tired and wanted to rest. Yes, it is something that hurt these children but it isn't done out of malice on the father's part, because they thought they were doing what they were supposed to do. In the 1980s there were a lot of movies about sons reconciling with their father's lack of attention and love. One popular one was Field of Dreams. To bring this back to my interpretation of Severus, I do believe that it is the author's intent that  Tobias played a role in him joining the Death Eaters and his muggle prejudices. And if it works for others that is great, but for me he is a child  with prejudices and parent issues, which I think many children deal with. I think Severus joining the Death Eaters has more to do with how Hogwarts was.

I mean,your theory about tobias is not pbysical abusive is plausible. We use "death of author" and as result we only knew that tobias is poor,have very bad relationship with his onlh child,fight a lot with his wife and dont like magic. Physical  abuse,never mentioned in ybr prince tale

Quote from Shell Cottage on September 9, 2026, 5:11 pm

i see this as one of multiple instances where there's two equally plausible readings intended for two separate audiences. off the top of my head:

1. Snape's Worst Memory: not only is there the ''mature audience'' implication that James stripped Snape of his underwear, there's the even darker suggestion that, to save face after Lily rejected him and stalked off, he took up what she said, only with more than just soap bubbles and ''wash out your mouth.''
2. Bertha 'birtha' Jorkins (of the phrase ''Spenlow and Jorkins'') off to visit a distant cousin...Voldemort's ends require 2 victims...adult readers are free to connect the dots...or not, if they don't want to go there.
3. the blink-and-you-miss-it moment toward the end of DH when Harry's tie to Voldemort's mind conflates Bellatrix with Ginny