In Defense of Severus Snape (And Those of Us Who Love Him)
Oh yeah, there's a definite correlation between goodness and fuckability, though to be fair, most of us are guilty of it to some degree. In my case, I've always been attracted to pale, skinny guys with long dark hair and brooding personalities. Not the only reason I love Snape, obviously, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a factor. 😍😂
Yeah, agreed with correlation between goodness and looks.
In my opinion, Harry was a biased POV who gradually uglified Severus as he grew to loathe him. In Spinner's End chapter in HBP which was 3rd person POV, Severus' features were described without ugliness. Same with Harry, in Prince's Tale, his description of Snape gradually improved with each passing memory as he came to understand Severus and his hatred of Severus declined.
Oh, for sure. I commented on this in one of our older threads:
Quote from Heatherlly on October 10, 2022, 3:53 amAlso, we don't get many chances to see Snape "unfiltered" (i.e. not from Harry's POV). The subtle (and not so subtle) differences in the way he's described are fascinating, starting with his appearance:
"A sliver of a man could be seen looking out at them, a man with long black hair parted in curtains around a sallow face and black eyes."
That's it. No greasy hair or crooked yellow teeth, no mention of an overly large nose. Of course, that doesn't mean Snape was conventionally attractive, but it does show that Harry focused on/perhaps even exaggerated his supposed flaws. Of course, it's human nature to do that when we dislike someone, which is what makes the discrepancy so brilliant. Harry might see him as "ugly", but he wouldn't necessarily appear that way to an objective observer.
I must say that a lot of the basic points I wanted to bring up already were stated in @heatherlly ‘s post, which of its own is very insightful and explanatory from the overall debunking of “stalker” assumption and summed up perfectly on the very same matter of who’s actually closer to the definition of a stalker, I still would like to blow the dust off this fairly older post (which was also a major contributor inspiring me to delve deeper) and focus on these more:
Quote from Heatherlly on February 17, 2023, 11:11 am
- Bullies someone she clearly cares about, which (along with the previous point) shows blatant disregard for her feelings. Unlike Severus, James doesn't care if Lily is upset or hurt or angry. His needs/feelings come first, to the point that he's willing to sexually assault her best friend while attempting to blackmail her into going out with him.
That last point is often minimized by James apologists. They have sort of a, "no big deal/boys will be boys" attitude, and some of them even claim that Severus deserved it. But let's look at it this way: what if Severus had been a girl?
I know he wasn't, and I realize this isn't an exact comparison. Still, picturing him as the opposite sex makes it that much more clear how egregious this was. It was a violation, plain and simple, one that should've been a criminal offense regardless of the victim's gender. And then to use that assault to victimize someone else?
That's the thing. Severus wasn't the only one who was victimized in that scene, even if what happened to Lily is somewhat less obvious. James tried to take away her power to say, "No", playing on her compassion and vulnerability for leverage. It was disgusting, and I daresay the actions of a predator.
I’ll spoiler anything further there, due to being said obvious potential trigger and quite lengthy, too.
“Sexual assault is an act of sexual abuse in which one intentionally sexually touches another person without that person's consent, or coerces or physically forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will. It is a form of sexual violence that includes child sexual abuse, groping, rape (forced sexual penetration, no matter how slight), drug facilitated sexual assault, and the torture of the person in a sexual manner.”
Whereas, yes, what went on there was not in any case involving penetration, therefore not falling under the definition of rape specifically, it still does for a more broad definition of SA. Undressing someone against their will is SA alone (and I think that even in confines of this world where magic can be involved rather than doing it by hands, doesn’t change the action of it giving same results), but it’s even broader of a humiliation because of it happening in front of the pack of Marauders along with Lily (which obviously adds extra points of said humiliation due to her being the most important person to him) and random students coming to watch. It’s been mentioned in the books that where this situation took place, it wasn’t a secluded, private area but something multiple even initially uninvolved people could watch and eventually crowded to do so (without anyone but Lily intervening). And while I am not triggered by people disliking Snape as a character and focusing on primarily the bad aspects of him, it’s plainly revolting to dismiss something that is this personal of a trauma for many of people and just shaking it off as “just ‘regular’ bullying” or said “boys will be boys”, as if bullying alone wasn’t something wrong at its core.
Many also choose to or tend to forget that to commit sexual abuse, you don’t even have to be attracted to the target of it, nor does gender matter in determining whether something is SA or not. SA, despite it touching the delicate subject of one’s sexuality isn’t about relieving any sexual desires or receiving carnal pleasure more often than it is about pure power imbalance. It just works as a very obnoxious, direct way to humiliate, expose and strut someone out of dignity and that’s the most prominent motif of it even being a thing in the first place. A straight woman can commit it on another woman. A straight man can commit it on another man. And obviously, being a man doesn’t cast a pass on you that it’s impossible to happen at all.
It’s very much inappropriate in the first place that society views this that way, but the initial post is right also on the aspect that… it becomes much easier to recognize as SA and notice its wrongness if we imagine Snape being a girl in this scenario. Men aren’t any otherworldly alien species to which violation cannot happen or which posses completely different psychology. Trauma and suffering of both genders in this scenario would be equal and undeniable, but it’s overlooked how it’d impact a man and how it carries on to his later life (often having a hard time receiving any kind of support, as apparently, in many countries up to this day laws on SA don’t involve nor give men any spotlight at all making it technically legal to get away with it. It’s a deeply settled societal problem transcending most cultures).
It’s something I mostly noticed within American readers, too - but I’ve noticed some of apologists also using linguistic differences only to seem like this act has been something more “innocuous” (even if it isn’t even in the lightest, core of it) by meaning that the piece of clothing shown by turning Snape upside down was in fact, trousers rather than underwear. In British English, though “pants” means underwear, so for one thing, James exposed Severus’ underwear publicly, then asked the crowd/rest of Marauders whether she shall take it off to strip him bare (using exactly words “Who wants to see me take off Snivelly’s pants?”). It’s where the retrospection ends and Harry gets caught on looking into it by Severus, but it’s not completely off the table that it was even worse than most remembered it (which, I’ll rehearse that wouldn’t stop being SA even if no completely bare body was involved). Especially considering his very visceral, defensive reaction turning into aggression - him yelling at and pushing Harry away up until he fell against the floor and urged to leave Snape’s office.
What James has done could easily fall into sexual (and non-sexual) torture I highlighted before too even if we imply said further undressing didn’t happen, considering that said act was intertwined by and used as another “stage” of something that can also fall into literal torture. After disarming him, he was treated with Scourgify (primarily used for cleaning things or… exactly humiliation tactic) causing him to choke on soap which is way more serious than any cartoony depiction of it. Obviously, if it had been led on any further, poisoning, blackout from the lack of oxygen or other negative impact on health could happen. When they first lifted him up, exposing him they eventually dropped him down letting him get hit by the impact of the fall itself. He also has been treated with Petrificus Totalus by Sirius when he tried to get up, making him both fall again and atop of that, be forced to stay paralyzed in one position. Of course, by the way the books are rather family-friendly, it’s quite the standard either to assume that the focus of descriptions won’t rely on exactly impact of said torture - which doesn’t change things easy to assume by even the subtler, brief ways they were mentioned.
I sometimes wonder whether people giving it excuses of this sort ever think of actual men having this kind of baggage (instead of treating it just as some petty argument to be had confined strictly to fiction), or whether confronted with real life situation paralleling this, would they blame and brush off real suffering coming from it, standing by the abuser’s side. Whereas I don’t want to say that it’s always “evil” to like characters who are bad to the bone (like, literal evil rather than morally ambiguous even) and even commit serious crimes, I think a lot of context to why I’m concerned about this gives how James fans go about it. It’s not “yes I like him, but I acknowledge that this character has committed a serious crime” but rather “yes I like him and he didn’t do anything wrong here” often trying to victimize him. Sometimes it even transcends to possible triggering of real people, with how they try to make this act seem like a child’s play or ignorant comments regarding “not enough has been done to be SA”. Needless to say, it’s a short way to disrespect actual people’s experiences that fall under the same common points of gender or specific method of SA and this all only to… whitewash and prove a point over a fictional character? It’s just immoral at this point. And similarly, too can be pretty much said about the general bullying. I don’t demonize liking fictional jerks even if I personally would hate them, but I definitely frown upon someone not knowing where to stop and where the line needs to be drawn while defending any characters’ actions (especially if they have motifs as petty as James’ did in this case, literally stating his reasons by saying it’s for Severus “existing”. I’m a very somatic person in general, but when I did read this scene, it made me mentally nauseous by how plainly cruel and visceral it was).
Another thing, too is saying that by Snape creating the offensive spells specifically with Marauders in mind and trying to use it against James while he approached him - it’s very often overlooked that this kind of violence wasn’t uncalled for. It’s both a result of year-lasting abuse (that it was Marauders whom initiated it in the first place) that leaves deep scars in one’s psyche and often deciding the future of someone’s as well as just because someone attempted at jabbing back at this kind of torment (by casting a hex gashing at James’ face, which is very often deemed as being Sectumsempra whereas nothing really confirms for sure whether it was this sort of a deadly curse, being rather unlikely considering the mildness of the result) still the way James reacted to said “attack” was completely disbalanced and way harsher of a “punishment” than the act itself is worth, if even we assume that said counter was purely morally wrong, both by how invading it is and how unfair it is in the first place for a group of people to sneak upon two at most people.
It’s the same kind of watering down, too to say that the reason and justification for James’ heightened aggression was standing in defense of Lily while she was called a “mudblood”, but exactly as mentioned by Heatherlly in the post I quoted originally, for many reasons it’s evident that Lily’s safety and comfort isn’t on top list of James’ priorities even if it’s technically appropriate to react negatively to slurs being used. Not only he used the SA of her best friend just to “trade” it for her going out with him and harassing her until she agreed, but also the entire situation was murky and ambiguous enough that I think, ultimately no way out of it would end up 100% well, especially taken the blistering and boiling before erupting in this particular way emotions on the end of both Marauders, Snape and Lily. Marauders, because they eventually came to some sort of rivalry over Lily atop of reacting with even bigger aggression to Severus’ attempts to defend himself. Snape, because he was done with the year-lasting abuse, cornered and exactly in this very moment abused in the “ultimate” way violating his privacy. And Lily, because of enduring second-hand tension coming from Marauders’ behavior towards Sev, her genuine attempts to help being rejected and her own doubts growing seeing him forming ties with Death-Eaters.
While I don’t excuse nor try to lessen the power given to this insult, that is not a regular one - but a slur bearing century-lasting stigma on it, of which Lily has the absolute entitlement to feel offended and hurt for — I’d also like to get it across that Severus wasn’t in his best mind at the time he called her it. The feelings concerning SA aren’t anyhow easy to handle even years after the assault happening (which speaks of its own by being literally Snape’s worst memory for a multitude of reasons), but we are speaking of situation happening now and here. It’s completely reasonable to feel like you’re not yourself, or feeling like crawling out of your own skin while in such a pressure. He was like a cornered, wounded animal that starts biting even the hand that feeds it in amok and confusion while it tries not to show its most vulnerable parts to potential predators. Of course, Lily wasn’t unreasonable feeling hurt by rejection of her as the only person willing to even say a word at all to back up Severus, but at the same time, he was fighting to remain his composure in the shock and extreme humiliation of being disarmed, at mercy of his bullies adding only fuel to the fire by undressing him by force. She then, decided to cut ties with him - also publicly, in front of everybody watching it as well as along insulting James, she also returned the jab by a humiliating comment implying his underwear’s dirty. No matter whether someone takes Lily’s or Severus’ side (or even neither) in this particular case, there’s simply no one way to resolve it that’d cover and save them both’s feelings completely. It’s hard to expect of both her and him to behave completely reasonable, cold and calculated and to dismiss emotional turmoil on either end.
It also just… sometimes makes me wonder how this kind of trauma must’ve affected him in his adult life, as well as what went on the inside of his head while having to meet and see people witnessing or perpetuating it in day to day life. I don’t quite believe that something like that, again, witnessed by a decent share of random students would go without any echo where hormonal, snarky and gossipy teenagers are at play. I always assumed it must’ve led to some kind of gossip or at least being pointed out and laughed off for quite some time before it was forgotten (and even then there’s no guarantee literally everyone would forget). Perhaps also contributing to Snape being way more cautious with his trust or appearing more closed-off in adulthood despite his nature and earlier nurture already giving that. Perhaps affecting the way his adult romantic life looked like. Perhaps digging himself in further within his own walls and trying to dissociate from what’s haunting him and “prove” himself through other means to “regain” the dignity he feels like he’s lost. It’s after all, the worst memory of his staying for the rest of his life yet rarely gets any spotlight compared to the way more vague depictions of his situation at home or general bullying — which is understandable considering how controversial, taboo and sensitive of a matter it is. Still, I think it’s interesting to turn the attention to it regardless of said points, and I think the world deserves some balance to claims minimizing serious abuse - maybe even helping to understand Severus better as a character and noticing more of his uniqueness in the things used to depict him, too.
I think it’s overall very bold of a move to show any hint of SA hinted towards men in media, and I can count the times I’ve seen it being, even vaguely and barely spoken about brought up in probably an amount I could count on the fingers of my one hand. It’s not as much of a taboo to refer to it regarding women, often assuming them along children are the only possible victims, but very rarely it’s a peer abusing a male peer.
Great analysis, thank you! 💚
For future reference, you don't need to use content warnings around here unless you're posting something truly graphic (e.g violent imagery, detailed descriptions of rape). Spoiler tags can be useful for lengthier content (thank you for that), but in general, please don't feel like you have to hide or censor discussion of more sensitive topics.
Quote from Heatherlly on September 28, 2024, 2:52 amGreat analysis, thank you! 💚
For future reference, you don't need to use content warnings around here unless you're posting something truly graphic (e.g violent imagery, detailed descriptions of rape). Spoiler tags can be useful for lengthier content (thank you for that), but in general, please don't feel like you have to hide or censor discussion of more sensitive topics.
I appreciate it, I weren’t sure myself where the line is drawn while, yeah it is not an entirely family-friendly site that I noticed while the general common sense to draw upon being more so within PG 13… That helps a lot definitely when evaluating where it needs to be cut, though and it’s a bit freeing to see it’s much more lax. I’d also like to ask by that way, what are the rules about gore and artistically implied violence’s mentions/imagery? I do have some spare as well as planned gory artwork and honestly I wondered about that too, whether such should be spoilered or left as is.
If it's especially gory, use a spoiler tag. if not, you're good.
fI you're not sure, just go ahead and post without. We'll add it if we feel it's needed - no big deal. 🙂
When Pettunia badmouths Snape, she refers to him as 'Spinner’s End's Snape boy' with contempt. If it’s not just Pettunia, and all the villagers look down on Severus like that, it’s highly likely that Severus Snape was despised by everyone simply for being the child of his father, Tobias, whom he dislikes. (How could young Pettunia have known such rumors on her own? In the end, adults are truly terrible.)
It’s understandable that Severus would have a hard time having good feelings or memories about the Muggle world.
After all, neighbors and strangers, who hardly know him, would judge him with prejudice by mentioning the father he dislikes and wishes to avoid.
Ironically, it’s sad that the adult Snape ended up looking down on and hating Harry simply as James's son.
Sad, but not surprising. People often do copy behaviours and beliefs they were surrounded by in childhood.
I do agree pretty much with all of this. I think a lot of to do with Snape’s reputation as a child was exactly judgment based on things he had little to no control over, in the end. The associations with his ill-tempered father but also the visible neglect that could make him stand out and instead of being treated with some understanding or concern, was brushed off as some margin of the local community (I think that definitely his life situation/poverty/neglect was worse on the background of his peers if we think from the point of how his ill-fitting for his age clothing was pointed out in descriptions whereas no such comments suggesting the same were applied to Petunia and Lily). Which, of course is another possible point of ostracism even from strangers with the tendency to avoid the significantly poorer due to stereotypes or prejudice.
It feels to me like a dynamic in which someone already on the “margin” is tossed even further to the side and even then, some people internalize such behaviors once they get out of their own downhill and feel like they “earned” their way out of it. It often is a very subconscious type of hypocrisy too.
