In Defense of Severus Snape (And Those of Us Who Love Him)
Yeah, Snape as a child was drawn to Dark Magic and Death Eaters for his desire of power, due the his belief of it bringing him outta his bad situations. So when he got power, as Dumbledore's man, Voldemort's servant and Professor, he exhibited his power, flaunted it and in Harry Potter case, subconsciously making him pay for James Potter's behaviours, and asserting his power over his students. He became a bully as an adult, and perpetuated in the behaviours he faced as a child.
My most detested argument to hate Snape is people accusing his love for Lily being obsession and something to be creeped out by, a man having feelings and a basic sexuality isn't wrong.
It's only wrong if he forces such feelings to the person without their consent. Snape never stalked Lily, never harassed her, never even told her how he truly felt. He never burdened Lily, he never sought out Lily after she made it clear she wanted nothing to do with him.
Not to mention I believe the only reason he did not move on from her was out of trauma and guilt. He likely has some form of PTSD and is only living out of penance. Severus wanted to die when he learned he indirectly caused her death. I think in more normal circumstances, Severus would have been able to move on.
Quote from Tecolotlz on November 24, 2024, 9:54 pmMy most detested argument to hate Snape is people accusing his love for Lily being obsession and something to be creeped out by, a man having feelings and a basic sexuality isn't wrong.
It's only wrong if he forces such feelings to the person without their consent. Snape never stalked Lily, never harassed her, never even told her how he truly felt. He never burdened Lily, he never sought out Lily after she made it clear she wanted nothing to do with him.
Not to mention I believe the only reason he did not move on from her was out of trauma and guilt. He likely has some form of PTSD and is only living out of penance. Severus wanted to die when he learned he indirectly caused her death. I think in more normal circumstances, Severus would have been able to move on.
Whereas I don’t have any strong opinion of whether Snape would have moved on or not if we put off PTSD occurring in his life (which is likely even in my opinion that he could have C-PTSD), I completely agree on your point and even wrote meta on that topic exactly a while ago (on page 2 of “What is your interpretation of Snape’s love for Lily”, unfortunately I cannot add a link but it’s easy to find and I thought sharing might be an interesting way to return to this topic). Whereas I don’t want to repeat the whole thing over again of what already is accessible on the forum, I’d like to point out that apparently, a lot of Snape haters who do that happen to be people on younger end who participate in the modern standard of western society which’s take on love is very demonizing towards one-sided love, limerence and other lighter forms of obsession (which, I explained further there that it isn’t inherently meaning aggression and most cases of which were documented in completely healthy people!) ignoring the context that it’s not an objective way to perceive it and often shames a person for solely feeling such emotions, no matter if they actually are an abuser, stalker or creep or not and that other cultures and even western culture in earlier historical periods perceived unreciprocated, not combined with violence love of an admirer as something at most tragic or worth pity, not hate.
It reaches even the blown out of proportion levels of witch-hunt that turns out for them to call Snape a creep or stalker as if it was a fact even if it’s not even mentioned anywhere in the book and by no way can be considered canon as well as… simply feels disrespectful to real people at times by ridiculing or minimizing things that can be absolutely realistic part of their trauma or neurodiversity/ways someone can act and process things like because of it. That said, ironically Marauder fans who hate Snape very often decide to ignore the fact of James canonically pestering Lily and blackmailing her to go out with him in exchange for him stopping to bully Severus in contrast to him actually being the one who left her alone after being told off a single time.
Quote from Waldemar on November 29, 2024, 2:20 pmQuote from Tecolotlz on November 24, 2024, 9:54 pmMy most detested argument to hate Snape is people accusing his love for Lily being obsession and something to be creeped out by, a man having feelings and a basic sexuality isn't wrong.
It's only wrong if he forces such feelings to the person without their consent. Snape never stalked Lily, never harassed her, never even told her how he truly felt. He never burdened Lily, he never sought out Lily after she made it clear she wanted nothing to do with him.
Not to mention I believe the only reason he did not move on from her was out of trauma and guilt. He likely has some form of PTSD and is only living out of penance. Severus wanted to die when he learned he indirectly caused her death. I think in more normal circumstances, Severus would have been able to move on.
Whereas I don’t have any strong opinion of whether Snape would have moved on or not if we put off PTSD occurring in his life (which is likely even in my opinion that he could have C-PTSD), I completely agree on your point and even wrote meta on that topic exactly a while ago (on page 2 of “What is your interpretation of Snape’s love for Lily”, unfortunately I cannot add a link but it’s easy to find and I thought sharing might be an interesting way to return to this topic). Whereas I don’t want to repeat the whole thing over again of what already is accessible on the forum, I’d like to point out that apparently, a lot of Snape haters who do that happen to be people on younger end who participate in the modern standard of western society which’s take on love is very demonizing towards one-sided love, limerence and other lighter forms of obsession (which, I explained further there that it isn’t inherently meaning aggression and most cases of which were documented in completely healthy people!) ignoring the context that it’s not an objective way to perceive it and often shames a person for solely feeling such emotions, no matter if they actually are an abuser, stalker or creep or not and that other cultures and even western culture in earlier historical periods perceived unreciprocated, not combined with violence love of an admirer as something at most tragic or worth pity, not hate.
It reaches even the blown out of proportion levels of witch-hunt that turns out for them to call Snape a creep or stalker as if it was a fact even if it’s not even mentioned anywhere in the book and by no way can be considered canon as well as… simply feels disrespectful to real people at times by ridiculing or minimizing things that can be absolutely realistic part of their trauma or neurodiversity/ways someone can act and process things like because of it. That said, ironically Marauder fans who hate Snape very often decide to ignore the fact of James canonically pestering Lily and blackmailing her to go out with him in exchange for him stopping to bully Severus in contrast to him actually being the one who left her alone after being told off a single time.
I agree, people have become increasingly cruel to people who cannot help but feel love for someone who doesn't feel the same way. As long as you don't impose it on the non-reciprocal party, there's no harm. Time is the best healer! I think love and devotion without asking anything in return are beautiful sentiments and not something to ridicule someone for. Love is love at the end of the day!
Quote from Heatherlly on February 17, 2023, 11:11 amCan we talk about the "Severus stalked Lily" nonsense? I know some people interpret things differently and/or have poor reading comprehension, but this one is ridiculous. It especially blows my mind when it comes from James fans (as it usually does). I mean, let's unpack the basics here…
SEVERUS
- Lily becomes (and remains) friends with him by choice. That's clear from their very first meeting. Yes, he's the one who initiated it, but look at what happened. She got offended and blew him off. He let her go. He was disappointed, humiliated, which… I'm sure we can all agree that he wouldn't have tried again under those circumstances. She would've had to initiate a second, more positive interaction, which is how they became friends.
- Lily stayed friends with him for years, despite increasing pressure to drop him. There was absolutely nothing stopping her from cutting him off if she'd wanted to – everyone would've been on her side. But she didn't do that, did she? She endured the criticism, the judgment, which goes to show that she wanted/valued the friendship. She fought to keep it, only giving up when she felt she had no other choice.
- Severus attempts to apologize after SWM. Lily makes it clear that she no longer wants to be friends. Does Severus push the issue? Does he lie to her, guilt trip her, try to manipulate her to get back in her good graces? No, he does not.
- Is there any indication, even the slightest hint, that he ever tried to talk to her or even go near her after that night? No, there isn't.
I don't know what these people think a stalker is, but it sure as hell isn't a person who respects someone's wishes and leaves them alone. Now James, on the other hand…
JAMES
- Repeatedly tries to insinuate himself into Lily's life, even when she makes it clear she doesn't like him.
- Bullies someone she clearly cares about, which (along with the previous point) shows blatant disregard for her feelings. Unlike Severus, James doesn't care if Lily is upset or hurt or angry. His needs/feelings come first, to the point that he's willing to sexually assault her best friend while attempting to blackmail her into going out with him.
That last point is often minimized by James apologists. They have sort of a, "no big deal/boys will be boys" attitude, and some of them even claim that Severus deserved it. But let's look at it this way: what if Severus had been a girl?
I know he wasn't, and I realize this isn't an exact comparison. Still, picturing him as the opposite sex makes it that much more clear how egregious this was. It was a violation, plain and simple, one that should've been a criminal offense regardless of the victim's gender. And then to use that assault to victimize someone else?
That's the thing. Severus wasn't the only one who was victimized in that scene, even if what happened to Lily is somewhat less obvious. James tried to take away her power to say, "No", playing on her compassion and vulnerability for leverage. It was disgusting, and I daresay the actions of a predator.
Moving on…
- James didn't become a better person after that incident. If he had, he would've recognized how badly he'd mistreated Lily. He would've realized that harassing someone for years while disregarding their boundaries is a terrible thing to do, something you can only make amends for by leaving that person alone. But he didn't do that, did he? He just changed tactics, realizing that his previous behavior wasn't working. That's why he started acting differently, at least as far as Lily could see. It's not that he recognized that his previous behavior was wrong, only that it wouldn't work in terms of getting what he wanted.
Some might argue that I'm being too harsh. I disagree. Canon makes it clear that he continued to bully Severus behind Lily's back, destroying any illusion that he ever regretted what he did or learned from his mistakes.
So why do these people accuse Severus of being a stalker, when James is clearly the one who demonstrated predatory behavior? I can't say for sure, though here's my theory:
THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS.
Lily chose to marry James. She ended up with him, so he couldn't have been that bad. Meanwhile, she shut Severus out of her life, so he must've been worse than he seemed.
It's a simplistic way of thinking, one that misses a hell of a lot of nuance, but I think there's truth to it. I think some people judge both characters based on the outcome of their relationship with Lily, not everything that happened up to that point. Who cares if James harassed Lily? She fell in love with/married the guy, proving that he was right to pursue her. Likewise, does it matter that she and Severus had a genuine friendship? It ended badly, so he's obviously a creep.
Of course, we can say for sure that Severus wasn't a stalker. We have proof of that in how he behaved after Lily cut him off. But what about James? What if Lily had continued to refuse his advances, long after Severus was out of the picture? Would he have respected her wishes as Severus did? Or would he have refused to take "no" for an answer, resorting to previous, well-documented behaviors in further attempts to get what he wanted?
My guess is the latter, which means he could've been a stalker. There are plenty of red flags in his behavior, and no sign that he regretted his mistakes/learned to prioritize Lily's feelings. He might've figured out how to cater to those feelings, but not without deception/ulterior motives. Honestly, the only thing that stopped him from being a stalker (or at least a predatory creep) is the fact that (for whatever reason) he managed to win her over.
Snape didn't even try Felix Felicis, though he could've succeeded.
