What's Wrong with the Marauders?
Lupin is a gold standard for for the male manipulator trope
Lupin is the gold standard for how a writer should write the charismatic male manipulator trope imo. So subtle it's incredibly hard to notice, but with tells that give the game away on close rereads. Also accompanied with an understandable and sympathetic reason why he behaves that way, most manipulative characters tend to be portrayed as cynical or power hungry, Lupin isn't that at all.
His appearance adds to it. Most Harry Potter characters appearance is rather memorable if you think about it. The Weasleys, Harry, Hermione, Sirius, Peter, Snape, Dumbledore, Bellatrix, the Malfoy’s, Voldemort, all these characters have distinct visual images in my brain regarding how they look, with unique characteristics to set them apart, be it the color of their hair, accessories, dress, physical features. With Lupin, all his features are either not remarked upon at all (like his height), unremarkable (i.e. the color of his hair, brown) or induce pity (shabby clothes). He is physically unremarkable in comparison to other HP characters. Often in other works it will be explicitly noted that a character is unremarkable (like with Petyr Baelish in asoiaf), which has in a certain way become a way for the genre savvy reader to recognize a manipulative character. Either that of they’re made extremely beautiful (like Tom Riddle), which is a trait that in-universe adds charisma but doesn’t work on readers. Lupin’s appearance makes him unremarkable without the reader catching on that it’s unremarkable, and also inspires sympathy not just from HP characters in universe but from the reader as well.
Lupin and his use of pauses and “ers”
It’s not just what characters say that I find interesting, but how they say it.
With that in mind, I keep thinking about two of Lupin’s comments from Prisoner of Azkaban, which seem to parallel each other neatly.
We were in the same year, you know, and we — er — didn’t like each other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous, I think, of James’s talent on the Quidditch field…
And:
That was the final straw for Severus. I think the loss of the Order of Merlin hit him hard. So he — er — accidentally let slip that I am a werewolf this morning at breakfast.
The first thing that fascinates me is the use of ‘er’.
We know that ‘didn’t like each other very much’ is a downplaying of the animosity between Snape and the Marauders, whilst ‘accidentally let slip’ appears to be a downplay of what presumably eventuated (that Snape purposely told people).
I think it clearly establishes a tell - that when Lupin pauses, he’s going to understate.
The second thing that fascinates me are Lupin’s two theories - his two statements of, “I think.”
- ‘Jealous, I think, of James’ talent on the Quidditch field’.
- ‘I think the loss of the Order of Merlin hit him hard.’
So, if we accept that ‘er’ is a tell, then ‘I think’ seems to be a similar indicator. On both occasions, Lupin deliberately misleads Harry - and in doing so, he minimises Snape’s trauma, whilst reducing his own involvement.
The first reduces the bullying that Snape endured for the apparent crime of ‘existing’ and suggests instead that Snape was at fault for being jealous.
The second reduces Snape’s anguish at believing that he’d finally captured the traitor responsible for Lily’s death and Dumbledore machinating so that the (as Snape thinks) traitor escapes, and instead suggests that Snape was at fault for glory hunting.
As I said, it’s not just what characters say that’s important to analyse, but how they say it.
Quote from Naaga on July 11, 2023, 12:27 pmLupin and his use of pauses and “ers”
It’s not just what characters say that I find interesting, but how they say it.
With that in mind, I keep thinking about two of Lupin’s comments from Prisoner of Azkaban, which seem to parallel each other neatly.
We were in the same year, you know, and we — er — didn’t like each other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous, I think, of James’s talent on the Quidditch field…
And:
That was the final straw for Severus. I think the loss of the Order of Merlin hit him hard. So he — er — accidentally let slip that I am a werewolf this morning at breakfast.
The first thing that fascinates me is the use of ‘er’.
We know that ‘didn’t like each other very much’ is a downplaying of the animosity between Snape and the Marauders, whilst ‘accidentally let slip’ appears to be a downplay of what presumably eventuated (that Snape purposely told people).
I think it clearly establishes a tell - that when Lupin pauses, he’s going to understate.
The second thing that fascinates me are Lupin’s two theories - his two statements of, “I think.”
- ‘Jealous, I think, of James’ talent on the Quidditch field’.
- ‘I think the loss of the Order of Merlin hit him hard.’
So, if we accept that ‘er’ is a tell, then ‘I think’ seems to be a similar indicator. On both occasions, Lupin deliberately misleads Harry - and in doing so, he minimises Snape’s trauma, whilst reducing his own involvement.
The first reduces the bullying that Snape endured for the apparent crime of ‘existing’ and suggests instead that Snape was at fault for being jealous.
The second reduces Snape’s anguish at believing that he’d finally captured the traitor responsible for Lily’s death and Dumbledore machinating so that the (as Snape thinks) traitor escapes, and instead suggests that Snape was at fault for glory hunting.
As I said, it’s not just what characters say that’s important to analyse, but how they say it.
Wow, that was some in-depth analysis I never thought to read about Lupin. I feel deceived.
Quote from Naaga on July 11, 2023, 12:27 pmLupin and his use of pauses and “ers”
It’s not just what characters say that I find interesting, but how they say it.
With that in mind, I keep thinking about two of Lupin’s comments from Prisoner of Azkaban, which seem to parallel each other neatly.
We were in the same year, you know, and we — er — didn’t like each other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous, I think, of James’s talent on the Quidditch field…
And:
That was the final straw for Severus. I think the loss of the Order of Merlin hit him hard. So he — er — accidentally let slip that I am a werewolf this morning at breakfast.
The first thing that fascinates me is the use of ‘er’.
We know that ‘didn’t like each other very much’ is a downplaying of the animosity between Snape and the Marauders, whilst ‘accidentally let slip’ appears to be a downplay of what presumably eventuated (that Snape purposely told people).
I think it clearly establishes a tell - that when Lupin pauses, he’s going to understate.
The second thing that fascinates me are Lupin’s two theories - his two statements of, “I think.”
- ‘Jealous, I think, of James’ talent on the Quidditch field’.
- ‘I think the loss of the Order of Merlin hit him hard.’
So, if we accept that ‘er’ is a tell, then ‘I think’ seems to be a similar indicator. On both occasions, Lupin deliberately misleads Harry - and in doing so, he minimises Snape’s trauma, whilst reducing his own involvement.
The first reduces the bullying that Snape endured for the apparent crime of ‘existing’ and suggests instead that Snape was at fault for being jealous.
The second reduces Snape’s anguish at believing that he’d finally captured the traitor responsible for Lily’s death and Dumbledore machinating so that the (as Snape thinks) traitor escapes, and instead suggests that Snape was at fault for glory hunting.
As I said, it’s not just what characters say that’s important to analyse, but how they say it.
Yes, Lupin is quite clearly playing for time even before the understatement. Evidently, he cares very much about how he is perceived.
I like poor Remus, but I understand he wasn't the best man and often manipulated Harry and others perspectives on Severus.
Bumped post to hear our new members point of views about this topic. 😸
Everything! The question should be what's not wrong with the marauders?
It's a story I often hear, but... Peter Pettigrew is said to be "a shame and a disgrace to the looters, a history that should be erased," but I don't think so. I thought that Peter Pettigrew's existence and the path he chose was the culmination of the "bare face, cruelty and hypocrisy" of James Potter and Sirius Black. I think it is not a history that should be erased, but a “history and self-portrait that should be carried with one’s whole life.”
I wholly agree with you @cometise, Peter was byproduct of how he was treated by Potter and Black, in contrast Neville, who was similar to young Peter, turned out well with nicer friends and confidence.
Granted, I know they are all teenagers during their Hogwarts years, but it still doesn’t excuse their actions or what happened.
James Potter was the ringleader of it all. If I recall correctly, he was the one who started making fun of Severus on the Hogwarts Express and called him “Snivellus” and even tried tripping him all because Severus said he’d rather be in Slytherin than Gryffindor. Since that moment on, he’s been the one starting it all when it came to bullying Severus (and others.)
Sirius Black follows whatever James does. He helps ignite and encourage what James does. He’s the enabler. And he’s no better when it comes to the Werewolf prank, trying to lead Severus into a dangerous path (and he KNOWS it’s deadly and could end with him getting killed or turned) but still does it anyway for laughs.
Remus Lupin is the bystander. He knows what his friends are doing is wrong and he doesn’t take any part in it, but, even with his authority as a Prefect, he doesn’t do anything to stop them. EVER! And that’s just as bad as participating in the bullying.
Peter Pettigrew is self explanatory. He’s the person who benefits from others who are more powerful than him. He’s not loyal. He mostly goes to the person who is more capable or winning at the moment to save his own tail.
