HP Weekly Discussion: Favoritism
Quote from BitterBrit on October 3, 2023, 6:24 pmIt may just be my memory, but I don't recall any interactions between Peter and the others of a traditional friendship.
We're told that he was one of four friends, but the only representation I can remember of the Marauders interacting with each other is SWM which portray Peter as less of their friend, and more like a James groupie.
By the time we see them all together again, barring James of course, it's years later after Peter has sold James and Lily out and framed Sirius for murder. Obviously all interactions are going to be hostile.
Lily's letter that Harry finds indicates that Peter was down and acting off at the time of her writing, though she didn't know why, I'm not sure if I take that as remorse for the loss of a genuine friendship on his side or fear.
I think the easy answer is that Peter saw James and Sirius as protection, and being on their side was better than being bullied — like Severus. But people are complicated, and he must have had some form of redeeming quality for the other three to allow him to tag along.
Unless James was really that pig-headed and liked the permanent ego boost that followed them around. But I'd hope that's not the case.
I absolutely agree with this!
“Remus, always the underdog’s friend, was kind to short and rather slow Peter Pettigrew, a fellow Gryffindor, whom James and Sirius might not have thought worthy of their attention without Remus’s persuasion. Soon, these four became inseparable.”
This was the start of marauders' friendship, James and Sirius became friends in Hogwarts express itself and later befriended Lupin. Lupin got them to befriend Peter and thus, marauders were born.
I don't like marauders but I'll try to point out that Peter wasn't treated as less than a friend due to above quote. Yes, later Sirius in PoA puts him down, but Sirius had been holding in hatred for twelve years and it's a lot for someone's feelings to change.
As everyone knows, Peter wanted protection and hanged around with powerful people, first marauders and later Death Eaters. He was a hatstall between Gryffindor and Slytherin and chose to be sorted into Gryffindor. His primary motivation was self-preservation which is a Slytherin trait.
Peter I feel, felt like strongest with the marauders because they were strongest gang in Hogwarts, bullying around, breaking rules, adventuring and so on.
While he was included by Lupin, it was James he liked the most.
Lupin had pulled out a book and was reading. Sirius stared around at the students milling over the grass, looking rather haughty and bored, but very handsomely so. James was still playing with the Snitch, letting it zoom further and further away, almost escaping but always grabbed at the last second. Wormtail was watching him with his mouth open. Every time James made a particularly difficult catch, Wormtail gasped and applauded. After five minutes of this, Harry wondered why James didn’t tell Wormtail to get a grip on himself, but James seemed to be enjoying the attention. Harry noticed that his father had a habit of rumpling up his hair as though to keep it from getting too tidy, and he also kept looking over at the girls by the water’s edge.
‘Put that away, will you,’ said Sirius finally, as James made a fine catch and Wormtail let out a cheer, ‘before Wormtail wets himself with excitement.’
Wormtail turned slightly pink, but James grinned.
‘If it bothers you,’ he said, stuffing the Snitch back in his pocket. Harry had the distinct impression that Sirius was the only one for whom James would have stopped showing off.
Here, Peter is sucking upto James and trying to curry his favour, James is eating up his attention and later Sirius gets him to put snitch away. From what I understood, Sirius was disgusted with the sort of behaviour Peter shows, Sirius was always a proud man and he probably hated such pathetic display from someone he considered a friend.
James as we know was a arrogant attention seeking man and Wormtail cheering for him makes him feel good.
A pattern was established long ago in marauders' interactions. James was central part of marauders' and liked the most by everyone in the group. Lupin certainly goes out of the way to defend James everytime he came up in books, Sirius missed him so much that he was trying to find James in Harry and Peter was always trying to please James. And Sirius was James' favourite and only one he listened to, including putting the snitch away, going for Snape in SWM, following his commands and later making Peter secret keeper on his suggestion.
I don't think marauders behaved maliciously to Peter knowingly but they certainly didn't get to build his confidence. James encouraged his behaviour and Sirius tried to discourage him by insults and that's not the right way to build someone's confidence.
Lupin, I think treated Peter with kindness, but there could've been a pity element in his behaviour towards Peter.
Sirius considered him a friend but probably treated him worst because he felt disgusted by his behaviour.
James, I think trusted Peter a lot and while Sirius made him switch secret keeper by putting Peter down, James probably switched because he trusted both Sirius' judgement and Peter.
‘No, I think you’re like James,’ said Lupin, ‘who would have regarded it as the height of dishonour to mistrust his friends.’
Honorable mention is Lily who addresses Peter as Wormy affectionately in the letter to Sirius, signifying that Peter was a regular visitor to Potter home and considered as a really good friend.
Wormy was here last weekend, I thought he seemed down, but that was probably the news about the McKinnons; I cried all evening when I heard.
In the end, I would say Peter was considered a good and trusted member of marauders. Issue was him being treated like a minion perhaps unknowingly and one of the factors for him going towards Voldemort. I think he was wavering a lot during his spying year between Voldemort and James, and in the end chose Voldemort thus, dragging him down to further tragedy, both for him as well as others.
And Peter being a good friend makes his betrayal all more tragic than him just being an honorable sidekick and as insinuated by Rowling, former is the most likely case for him.
Kinda ironic how Pettigrew was the one responsible for the mess, and yet they believed him until the end. Pettigrew was always a coward who stuck to the biggest bully in the block. I am not sure if it's movie thing or not, but he's far more disappointing in appearances and character than Snape could ever be.
19. Why do you think James Potter wasn't in Slug club?
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 7, 2023, 1:47 pm19. Why do you think James Potter wasn't in Slug club?
Honeslty, same reason why he wasn't a headboy - too much of a trublemaker.
We know that he was good at his classes, but not all of them. And potions weren't one of his lucky subject. And we know that Slughorne teached potions. Of course, there was probably a lot of students that weren't so good in potions, but I just think that James blowed up (with Sirius and Peter probably hah) a lot of cauldrons.
And we know that Snape was in Slug club, good at potions, so I guess that Slughorne knew about treatment Marauders gave him (Snape).
But in main, I think it was bc he wasn't so good at potions, and bc ha had opinion of a troublemaker
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 7, 2023, 1:47 pm19. Why do you think James Potter wasn't in Slug club?
Curious because at first glance, James Potter seems ideal recruit for the Slug club. Rich, son of a famous potioneer Fleamont Potter whose family is known for their potions, well connected and popular. So why he didn't get an entry?
It's because I believe, he didn't like Potter. As I often said in my early discussions, Snape was Slughorn's best student and someone Slughorn liked and cared for. Potter did hurt Snape and Slughorn didn't condone such attitude.
There's also parallels between Potter and Draco. Draco wanted entry in Slug club and often threw references of his grandfather and father to Slughorn yet he, perhaps even higher in pedigree than Potter, didn't get an entry.
I'd conclude that Slughorn was an decent judge of character (not always, got duped by Tom Riddle) and Potter and Draco didn't pass some standard he set for his entrants hence, they didn't into Slug club.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on November 7, 2023, 1:47 pm19. Why do you think James Potter wasn't in Slug club?
I'm not gonna lie, I thought he was. Is there evidence against this other than the fact that Slughorn doesn't mention him?
Both Sirius and James seem to be the perfect people for Slughorn's collection – from noble families, athletic, charamatic, smart, liked by pretty much everyone. You'll notice that when Slughorn talks about his "trophies", he mentions their achievements:
Barnabas Cuffe, editor of the Daily Prophet ...
Gwenog Jones, who of course captains the Holyhead Harpies …
Sirius Black spent 12 years in Azkaban, hardly something to be proud about, and James Potter died before he could do anything with his life. His greatest achievement was that he was Harry's father. I can see Slughorn not mentioning them even if they were former members of the Slug Club.
As for Draco Malfoy, I believe he wasn't invited not because he was a bully, but because his father had just been revealed to be a Death Eater. Same for Theodore Nott.
(Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read HBP in 3 years. I'll get there in a month.)
So... If those two weren't in the Slug Club, my guess would be that they were invited but didn't want to join. For one, the whole idea of a club organised by the Slytherin Head of House where they'd be surrounded by the likes of Lucius Malfoy must have seemed appalling to them. And for another, whatever James and Sirius may have been, they were loyal friends, and wouldn't have wanted to leave Lupin and Pettigrew behind.
Quote from Salvyus on November 12, 2023, 3:46 amQuote from The Gestalt Prince on November 7, 2023, 1:47 pm19. Why do you think James Potter wasn't in Slug club?
I'm not gonna lie, I thought he was. Is there evidence against this other than the fact that Slughorn doesn't mention him?
Both Sirius and James seem to be the perfect people for Slughorn's collection – from noble families, athletic, charamatic, smart, liked by pretty much everyone. You'll notice that when Slughorn talks about his "trophies", he mentions their achievements:
Barnabas Cuffe, editor of the Daily Prophet ...
Gwenog Jones, who of course captains the Holyhead Harpies …
Sirius Black spent 12 years in Azkaban, hardly something to be proud about, and James Potter died before he could do anything with his life. His greatest achievement was that he was Harry's father. I can see Slughorn not mentioning them even if they were former members of the Slug Club.
As for Draco Malfoy, I believe he wasn't invited not because he was a bully, but because his father had just been revealed to be a Death Eater. Same for Theodore Nott.
(Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read HBP in 3 years. I'll get there in a month.)
So... If those two weren't in the Slug Club, my guess would be that they were invited but didn't want to join. For one, the whole idea of a club organised by the Slytherin Head of House where they'd be surrounded by the likes of Lucius Malfoy must have seemed appalling to them. And for another, whatever James and Sirius may have been, they were loyal friends, and wouldn't have wanted to leave Lupin and Pettigrew behind.
No, both of them weren't members of his club. Slughorn being a braggart would've mentioned it if they were part of Slug club and I don't see them type to refuse if James could get closer to Lily through Slug club.
Slughorn only mentioned Lily because she was a member.
Harry was also loyal, even more loyal friend than James and Sirius but he also joined Slug club at expense of Ron. So I don't think they were even invited and let's just say it's fanon idea of Slughorn that he invites every rich and well connected pureblood into his club, and that's not canon.
20. What if Voldemort didn't take Harry's blood for resurrection? How'd it change the plot?
Didn't the ritual allow Voldemort to touch Harry afterwards? He even brags about it at some point iirc. If he hadn't used Harry's blood, I guess he would still burn at Harry's touch like Quirrel in Harry's first year.
Besides, the ritual asks for the blood of his enemy and although Dumbledore fits the criteria well, Voldemort's main enemy is Harry: the child from the prophesy, the one he chose as his equal and the one who previously defeated him and caused him to live a half life as a ghost.
