HP Weekly Discussion: Favoritism
Quote from Naaga on July 25, 2023, 1:14 pm13. Do you think the Dursleys' treatment of Harry was due to the horcrux in him?
I like the idea because it does have a leg to stand on. It's canon that the locket was affecting the Trio negatively. And it can be a cool tool in fanfiction to make the Dursleys appear as at least somewhat decent human beings.
But I don't think it's actually the case in the books. For one, the horcrux's effect wasn't nearly as drastic when one wasn't wearing it literally pressed against their chest. And the Dursleys kept their distance from Harry.
On a similar note, Hermione and the boys in Harry's dorm most likely spent considerably more time and in much closer proximity to him than the Dursleys, yet were never aggressive toward him without a different reason entirely.
And we do have an explanation – however unsatisfactory – of Petunia's treatment of Harry. We see in TPT that she's jealous of Lily's (and consequently Harry's) magic. She probably resents it because she can't have it even though it's right under her nose. If my little sister turned up with magical powers and went to a boarding wizarding school in a different country, I too would be rather upset 😂
Though there should be more to it to reach the level of resentment Petunia holds toward magic. I headcanon that she sees it as revenge. Her parents put Lily on pedestal because of her magic, so Petunia stuffed everything magical where she wouldn't have to see or even think about it. This way she could say, "See, he's the wizard but I'm still the one in charge, so clearly magic isn't even that big of a deal."
I wonder Petunia would have treated Harry better if Harry resembled Lily more than James. Maybe her resentment towards Harry is partially to James, in addition to magic?
Most of my reason for Dursleys' treatment of Harry comes from Vernon and Petunia Dursley written by JKR for Pottermore.
I don't think Horcrux in Harry has anything to do with Dursleys' treatment of Harry. All other Horcrux with nasty side-effects were intentionally made by Voldemort to inflict pain, suffering and torture. Harry's Horcrux was made unintentionally and it did only bare minimum, i.e anchoring Voldemort to life and some other things like sorting hat's wish to sort Harry into Slytherin came from sensing latent part of Voldemort inside Harry while unable to understand it.
Petunia felt jealousy of Lily having magic, forever embittered by her parents' preferential treatment of Lily and she was tired by being overshadowed by her sister.
Prior to Harry's arrival, Petunia had become, if anything, the more determined of the Dursleys in suppressing all talk about her sister. Petunia had some latent feelings of guilt about the way she had cut Lily (whom she knew, in her secret heart, had always loved her) out of her life, but these were buried under considerable jealousy and bitterness. Petunia had also buried deep inside her (and never confessed to Vernon) her long ago hope that she, too, would show signs of magic, and be spirited off to Hogwarts.
Reading the shocking contents of Dumbledore's letter, however, which told her how bravely Lily had died, she felt she had no choice but to take Harry in, and raise him alongside her own cherished son, Dudley. She did it grudgingly, and spent the rest of Harry's childhood punishing him for her own choice. Uncle Vernon's dislike of Harry stems in part, like Severus Snape's, from Harry's close resemblance to the father they both so disliked.
Their lies to Harry on the subject of how his parents had died were based largely on their own fears. A Dark wizard as powerful as Lord Voldemort frightened them too much to contemplate, and like every subject they found disturbing or distasteful, they pushed it to the back of their minds and maintained the 'died-in-a-car-crash' story so consistently that they almost managed to persuade themselves it was true.
Even though Petunia was raised alongside a witch, she is remarkably ignorant about magic. She and Vernon share a confused idea that they will somehow be able to squash the magic out of Harry, and in an attempt to throw off the letters that arrive from Hogwarts on Harry's eleventh birthday, she and Vernon fall back on the old superstition that witches cannot cross water. As she had frequently seen Lily jump streams and run across stepping stones in their childhood, she ought not to have been surprised when Hagrid had no difficulty making his way over the stormy sea to the hut on the rock."
Quote from Decision2Live on July 25, 2023, 10:04 pmI wonder Petunia would have treated Harry better if Harry resembled Lily more than James. Maybe her resentment towards Harry is partially to James, in addition to magic?
Petunia already resented Lily for her magic way before she met James. I'm sure his obnoxious behavior didn't help in endearing the wizarding world to her but the hard feelings were already there. I actually think that Petunia may have hated a mini-Lily even more.
I would like to think that the horcruxes amplify negative feelings that are already there. In Ron's case, it is his own insecurities and his occasional envy of Harry, most of the time they get along but there are times where those negative feelings take over.
The Dursleys already hated magic and the idea of raising an orphan they never asked for and being around a horcrux could have made their resentment grow even bigger.
14. What is the weirdest non-Snape character choice, either something that doesn't make sense, or something that would make sense for another character?
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on August 6, 2023, 1:26 am14. What is the weirdest non-Snape character choice, either something that doesn't make sense, or something that would make sense for another character?
Harry not opening his Christmas gift of mirror from Sirius until his death. I mean, this kid cherished everything he got from his parents and Godfather yet conveniently forgot to open that bloody gift.
While I am not a fan of Sirius and I'd say good riddance, it caused Harry a lot of grief which he could've prevented if he had that mirror.
Quote from Naaga on August 6, 2023, 11:25 amQuote from The Gestalt Prince on August 6, 2023, 1:26 am14. What is the weirdest non-Snape character choice, either something that doesn't make sense, or something that would make sense for another character?
Harry not opening his Christmas gift of mirror from Sirius until his death. I mean, this kid cherished everything he got from his parents and Godfather yet conveniently forgot to open that bloody gift.
While I am not a fan of Sirius and I'd say good riddance, it caused Harry a lot of grief which he could've prevented if he had that mirror.
This bothered me as well when reading OotP. I kinda excuse it with Harry being an angsty teenager that year and not really caring about his godfather's present anymore.
But it was always sth that bothered me in canon. Some deaths add so much to the story like Hedwig dying, the symbolism in her death is perfect but with Sirius and Snape...it just feels like it could have easily been prevented but maybe that's the whole point? That people die although they didn't have to?
It still doesn't really make sense to me that he neglected Sirius' present though especially after witnessing Cedric's death. Stuff like that makes you realize how fleeting life is and how easily you can lose a loved one and makes every moment with them more valuable.
So, a weird character decision for me is Hermione marrying Ron and that not ending in a divorce.
So, we have noticed that Ron struggles with an inferiority complex and easily gets jealous. He also tends to tease Hermione for her serious and studious personality until the end of the series where he does show respect for her role in the trio.
Now, I honestly don't see someone like Hermione and Ron have an actual successful marriage, especially if Ron works at a joke shop while his wife goes on to become the Minister of Magic. He would resent her for being more successful than him, and would often be reminded of it whenever people would ask about him being Hermione's husband.
I think she would have been better off with someone like Viktor Krum and Ron would have been better off with Luna.
Quote from Dark Angel on August 7, 2023, 2:36 pmSo, a weird character decision for me is Hermione marrying Ron and that not ending in a divorce.
So, we have noticed that Ron struggles with an inferiority complex and easily gets jealous. He also tends to tease Hermione for her serious and studious personality until the end of the series where he does show respect for her role in the trio.
Now, I honestly don't see someone like Hermione and Ron have an actual successful marriage, especially if Ron works at a joke shop while his wife goes on to become the Minister of Magic. He would resent her for being more successful than him, and would often be reminded of it whenever people would ask about him being Hermione's husband.
I think she would have been better off with someone like Viktor Krum and Ron would have been better off with Luna.
I believe that's on JKR writing sort of highschool sweethearts married forever trope.
We saw almost all the couples married just after the Hogwarts to their high school sweethearts and almost all the unmarried people remaining single.
It comes down to JKR writing book for children to give a feel good ending and having no afterthought on romances and working of relationships. Many canon relationships seemed unhealthy or toxic yet they continued onwards without any issue. Many relationships didn't make any sense with how suddenly they got forced.
JKR herself later said she regrets pairing Ron and Hermione which was sort of wish fulfilment on her part.
I think Ronmione had signs of a good relationship. Their relationship was teased as early as PoA or maybe even before that. Hermione literally preferred spending summers with Weasley over her parents from PoA onwards. They also spent quite a lot of time together separately from Harry.
While there can be issues between them in real life, I don't think job can be an issue. Ron used to be auror with Harry and they joined auror academy together. While later on Ron retired early to take care of children and shop. It fits his character because he was caretaker in the Trio. Hermione loved Ron for his support and comfort, not for a job.
Hermione also seems a feministic character with traits like more successful of the two, keeping her maiden name, involvement in politics, etc. Ron was always supportive of Hermione and I don't think he'd resent her for being more successful than her. This idea is misogynist that relationships don't work unless male spouse earns more and more successful than his wife. I don't think Ron had any misogynist traits as per my understanding of him and he always stood up for Hermione whenever she required for most of the time.
I also agree with you @darkangel that Ron's insecurities can come into play in this scenario. But I think they could get through with it
The whole marrying off all high school sweethearts thing is actually quite silly and counterproductive. It just makes you feel like you'll die all alone if you haven't found your soulmate and gotten married right out of high school.
I also think it would have been better to show kids that trying out different relationships is fine and that divorce is a normal occurrence (and definitely better than staying in a potentially toxic relationship). With all these happily married couples, children of divorced parents must feel like there's something very wrong with their family.
I think that Rowling also wrote the ending the way she did because she wanted the Golden Trio to remain close at all cost, and what better way than marrying into the same family? Under different circumstances, they would have drifted apart.
The whole idea that a husband has to be intellectually and financially superior to his wife is definitely misogynistic, especially since the other way around seems to be unacceptable for many. If Ron actually managed to overcome his insecurities, then I do see it work out. I still think that normalizing divorce would have also been a nice lesson, especially if Ron and Hermione separated on good terms
