The Character of James Potter
Quote from Naaga on April 1, 2023, 3:34 amThanks for liking our analysis of the douchebag James Potter.
Thanks for liking our analysis of the douchebag James Potter.
Quote from James Potter on April 1, 2023, 4:39 amYou dare slander my good name @thegestaltprince
You dare slander my good name @thegestaltprince
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on April 1, 2023, 4:49 amDefine "good"
Define "good"
Quote from James Potter on April 1, 2023, 4:52 amI am the phenomenon, the leader of marauders, champion of Gryffindor, head boy, member of Order of the Phoenix and father of the Boy who lived. I was loved by my fans, my fellow marauders, my parents and Lily. I died trying to save my family. What does Snivellus do, crying like a bitch 😂😂
I am the phenomenon, the leader of marauders, champion of Gryffindor, head boy, member of Order of the Phoenix and father of the Boy who lived. I was loved by my fans, my fellow marauders, my parents and Lily. I died trying to save my family. What does Snivellus do, crying like a bitch 😂😂
Quote from Naaga on April 15, 2023, 3:13 pmReading How To Betray A Dragon's Hero: "Pay attention Rowling! THIS is how you write a childhood bully who dies a good man. You don't excuse what they've done, you don't try to give them an "understandable motive". You show them coming to terms with the bad person they've been, give their reasons without making them excuses, and give their loyalty honestly to the right side before dying for their cause."
Reading How To Betray A Dragon's Hero: "Pay attention Rowling! THIS is how you write a childhood bully who dies a good man. You don't excuse what they've done, you don't try to give them an "understandable motive". You show them coming to terms with the bad person they've been, give their reasons without making them excuses, and give their loyalty honestly to the right side before dying for their cause."
Quote from Naaga on May 30, 2023, 12:09 amSpeaking of James' so called change, there seems to be this “unspoken” “implied” message that because James changed, the damage he did to Snape doesn’t count anymore. Okay yeah James hurt Snape, but James changed, why can’t Snape just get over it?
I initially had zero problem with the idea of James changing. He grew as a character, happens to be morally grey, and actually has the capacity for good? Not a problem with me. He changed? Great.
If people spoke about James’ change like he fits in with one of the themes in HP, that people can change for the better.
But unfortunately James’ change isn’t spoken about like that. James’ change is treated like some sort of band aid to slap on Snape’s trauma.
I am okay with James changing if we’re speaking about James’ overall character, as well as his character development. But, if a post is specifically about Snape’s trauma, then I don’t care how much James changed, and I don’t think “but James changed” should be slapped on any original post talking about the very real post traumatic stress disorder that Snape has because of James and Sirius’ bullying him for years.
I used to wonder for the longest time why some Snape fans were so salty over the idea of James changing. So the fuck what if he did change? Why is the very idea of James changing a bad thing? Why is it so hurtful? My response to James’ changing was “meh cool.” Like I’m not jumping up and down in joy over it, but I don’t find the idea of James changing personally offensive.
But now I get why even the POSSIBILITY of James having changed is personally offensive for people. When we hear the statement James changed, it’s hardly ever on an original post. It’s nearly always some anti-Snape James stan coming onto a post (that is appropriately tagged) talking about Snape’s PTSD or posts sympathetic to him and they come onto that post and say “but James changed.” As in yeah but whatever about the emotional pain Snape had to suffer from years later, yeah but whatever about his triggers because James changed.
“James changed” has become a symbol for dismissing Snape’s PTSD.
I now understand why people take “James changed” so personally, as if someone went up to them and slapped them across the face.
James may have changed, but Snape still suffers everyday of what James did to him. James has no issues, while Snape probably has a form of PTSD. How is that fair? How is that fair that the bully got out of Hogwarts with no issues, but that the bullied got out with a lot? The fact that James changed doesn’t erase what he did, doesn’t erase the trauma Snape still has. Snape still lives with the consequences of James’ bullying, so the fact that he changed doesn’t matter to Snape. What is done is done. The fact that he changed only mean that people would love him now, that he became a “better” person. But believe me, what Snape remembers is not that James changed.
Speaking of James' so called change, there seems to be this “unspoken” “implied” message that because James changed, the damage he did to Snape doesn’t count anymore. Okay yeah James hurt Snape, but James changed, why can’t Snape just get over it?
I initially had zero problem with the idea of James changing. He grew as a character, happens to be morally grey, and actually has the capacity for good? Not a problem with me. He changed? Great.
If people spoke about James’ change like he fits in with one of the themes in HP, that people can change for the better.
But unfortunately James’ change isn’t spoken about like that. James’ change is treated like some sort of band aid to slap on Snape’s trauma.
I am okay with James changing if we’re speaking about James’ overall character, as well as his character development. But, if a post is specifically about Snape’s trauma, then I don’t care how much James changed, and I don’t think “but James changed” should be slapped on any original post talking about the very real post traumatic stress disorder that Snape has because of James and Sirius’ bullying him for years.
I used to wonder for the longest time why some Snape fans were so salty over the idea of James changing. So the fuck what if he did change? Why is the very idea of James changing a bad thing? Why is it so hurtful? My response to James’ changing was “meh cool.” Like I’m not jumping up and down in joy over it, but I don’t find the idea of James changing personally offensive.
But now I get why even the POSSIBILITY of James having changed is personally offensive for people. When we hear the statement James changed, it’s hardly ever on an original post. It’s nearly always some anti-Snape James stan coming onto a post (that is appropriately tagged) talking about Snape’s PTSD or posts sympathetic to him and they come onto that post and say “but James changed.” As in yeah but whatever about the emotional pain Snape had to suffer from years later, yeah but whatever about his triggers because James changed.
“James changed” has become a symbol for dismissing Snape’s PTSD.
I now understand why people take “James changed” so personally, as if someone went up to them and slapped them across the face.
James may have changed, but Snape still suffers everyday of what James did to him. James has no issues, while Snape probably has a form of PTSD. How is that fair? How is that fair that the bully got out of Hogwarts with no issues, but that the bullied got out with a lot? The fact that James changed doesn’t erase what he did, doesn’t erase the trauma Snape still has. Snape still lives with the consequences of James’ bullying, so the fact that he changed doesn’t matter to Snape. What is done is done. The fact that he changed only mean that people would love him now, that he became a “better” person. But believe me, what Snape remembers is not that James changed.
Quote from The Gestalt Prince on May 30, 2023, 12:31 amSnape: an extremely troubled man in desperate need of therapy due to his informative years
Literally everyone: "James changed"
Snape: cannot even
Snape: an extremely troubled man in desperate need of therapy due to his informative years
Literally everyone: "James changed"
Snape: cannot even
Quote from Heatherlly on May 30, 2023, 9:58 amI'm not salty over the idea that James changed. I just don't believe it. There's a concept in writing called "show don't tell", and in this case, the "showing" never happened. Yes, James's friends say he changed, but these same friends are also attempting to excuse/minimize his behavior and paint him in the best possible light. Neither of them are being 100% truthful or unbiased, which is blatantly obvious in the original text. They're actively trying to make him look good, and he still comes off as shitty. Makes you wonder what the truth is, what he was really like without that rose-colored filter.
At the very least, we know he continued to bully Severus and lied to Lily about it. That doesn't prove that he changed, only that he got better at hiding his bad behavior. If he'd actually changed, he would've stopped bullying Severus in truth and apologized for doing so in the past. A person cannot change/become a better person without owning up to their behavior, recognizing that it was wrong, and trying to make amends (or at least making sure not to repeat those mistakes).
James did not change because he never truly stopped being a bully. It might've ended when they finished Hogwarts, but I suspect that had more to do with him no longer having access to Severus than a legitimate change of heart. What evidence is there to the contrary? None.
I'm not salty over the idea that James changed. I just don't believe it. There's a concept in writing called "show don't tell", and in this case, the "showing" never happened. Yes, James's friends say he changed, but these same friends are also attempting to excuse/minimize his behavior and paint him in the best possible light. Neither of them are being 100% truthful or unbiased, which is blatantly obvious in the original text. They're actively trying to make him look good, and he still comes off as shitty. Makes you wonder what the truth is, what he was really like without that rose-colored filter.
At the very least, we know he continued to bully Severus and lied to Lily about it. That doesn't prove that he changed, only that he got better at hiding his bad behavior. If he'd actually changed, he would've stopped bullying Severus in truth and apologized for doing so in the past. A person cannot change/become a better person without owning up to their behavior, recognizing that it was wrong, and trying to make amends (or at least making sure not to repeat those mistakes).
James did not change because he never truly stopped being a bully. It might've ended when they finished Hogwarts, but I suspect that had more to do with him no longer having access to Severus than a legitimate change of heart. What evidence is there to the contrary? None.
Quote from SanctuaryAngel on May 30, 2023, 10:54 amI agree with all of your points - And if James truly 'changed' he would have attempted to apologise or make amends to the people he's hurt. Because remember, Severus wasn't his only target, and as a Prefect/Head Boy (whatever it was), he used his position to continue to bully his 'special case' and got away with it.
The first step to a true change is admitting to your mistakes. James never did, because he constantly felt his actions were justified.
That is why many of us do not believe he ever did change. He didn't feel like he needed to, and hiding what he did behind Lily's back, is a huge indicator of that.
I agree with all of your points - And if James truly 'changed' he would have attempted to apologise or make amends to the people he's hurt. Because remember, Severus wasn't his only target, and as a Prefect/Head Boy (whatever it was), he used his position to continue to bully his 'special case' and got away with it.
The first step to a true change is admitting to your mistakes. James never did, because he constantly felt his actions were justified.
That is why many of us do not believe he ever did change. He didn't feel like he needed to, and hiding what he did behind Lily's back, is a huge indicator of that.
Quote from Motanul Negru on May 30, 2023, 11:13 amAs for James and Lily being Head Boy and Girl, I (well, anyone who found the posts on reddit) have it from Pet Genius that the only source we have is Hagrid in PS, and (I extrapolate) that in the Watsonian perspective at least, he might be misremembering, fibbing or misspeaking.
IIRC Pet Genius proposed that James (and Lily?) may have stood out to Hagrid because they were particularly friendly/ close with him.
IIRC #2, there is no other mention of it in primary or secondary canon, and in wikis only with reference to Hagrid's comments; in the Wizarding World article on the Potter family the word "head" doesn't appear at all, nor anything that includes this arrangement of letters (such as "headmaster" or "thread").
Edit: It is mentioned in "In defence of young James Potter", though, well, just look at that title.
As for James and Lily being Head Boy and Girl, I (well, anyone who found the posts on reddit) have it from Pet Genius that the only source we have is Hagrid in PS, and (I extrapolate) that in the Watsonian perspective at least, he might be misremembering, fibbing or misspeaking.
IIRC Pet Genius proposed that James (and Lily?) may have stood out to Hagrid because they were particularly friendly/ close with him.
IIRC #2, there is no other mention of it in primary or secondary canon, and in wikis only with reference to Hagrid's comments; in the Wizarding World article on the Potter family the word "head" doesn't appear at all, nor anything that includes this arrangement of letters (such as "headmaster" or "thread").
Edit: It is mentioned in "In defence of young James Potter", though, well, just look at that title.