What Is Your Interpretation of Severus's Love for Lily?
Look Snape isn't a child or something person who doesn't human psychology unlike most of us he is excellent at understanding human psychology he wanted understanding not some brief infatuation.
Look crushes are too much of a limited word to be used and I detest it, it has become part of Snape lexicon to the extent readers have forgotten difference between love and infatuation.
Look at Snape patronus it's too deep powerful to be an infatuation because infatuations are not capable of producing reflection of someone else in such a profound way and neither is Snape a fool.
He was more than capable of finding someone he didn't because he did knew liliy.
I mean Snape is a leglimence connected to world in a way we aren't.
We can't be unlike him.
Why would he truly be idealised someone?
He is the last person to do it and unlike most people he is reflective.
He is capable of boundary and healthy connection look at his relationship with Lucius or narcissa.
I mean in his connection with liliy he is the one with reason.
Snape fall in love with liliy due to her authencity as a leglimence he was used to people lying and being different liliy emotional nature made it impossible for her to lie.
Snape prefered the authencity.
Obsession, infatuation and idealisation can not actually be true about his character arc if one notes.
And Snape memories we see are actually not strongly pointed at liliy in the first place. Obsession is inaccurate Snape love was honoured through years of reflection and understanding.
Obsession isn't fitting at all especially for a leglimence and someone who is able to control himself two things not possible.
Their connection was deep complicated not a simple fantasy that should be ignored.
Look at the way Rowling wrote it.
Snape is no Mental patient or delusional.
Because patronuses require emotional depth not just feelings if Snape was infatuated he couldn't have crafted a patronus and believe me some one as guarded as Snape would not be blind to anyone especially he knows that as leglimence no one can be trusted.
Bellatrix limerce more accurate term not Snape actually.
They were best friends for 7 years mind you ranging from childhood to teenager years.
The effect is immense and doe it self represents pure and transformative love not infatuation.
Because words matter.
Snape occulmency, his control over his emotions is not a sign of any infatuation.
His mental focus and self boundary and his ability to connect with others is valuable aspect of his character.
We can not deny that.
It's not just strong feelings that made snake empty because his story is transformative and truth is no infatuation has power to transform anyone.
Look at the brightness of patronus the completion the functionality, the freedom it expresses all do not align with obsessive tendencies.
I mean why it always has to be infutation and why an idealisation to be fair?
Perhaps for average people maybe but for someone as Snape who is a potion master, leglimence no one is more aware about human nature then him.
Rowling herself commented on his ability to love and it wasn't an infatuation.
7 years of knowing someone is not exactly joke especially on top when you are a leglimence.
Look Snape love isn't not an infatuation if that's what you are implying.
It's impossible neither are his thoughts intrusive I mean if they were how could he have done he could.
The pensive memories craft the past not exactly Intrusive toughts.
Look psychological theories are not enough and are actually very limited in describing things that do not fit into that category because Snape is capable of regulating his emotions its a myth if one assumes otherwise.
I mean why we assume is that he would prefer kindness and not something else?
Snape is not exactly one who cares much about kindness.
Why would he when kindness one thing as a leglimence he knows can not be truly worth it.
He preferred knowledge skill and in prince tale what he prefers about liliy her abilities not her apperance or her kindness to him.
His patronus as an adult is free to express and I believe Snape loved liliy emotional depth a depth he possessed not something he could express himself.
Snape is capable of deep connection which last so it is really you know at least for him unreasonable to assume his love is idealistic or infatuated when his patronus is anything but.
Quote from Amal zia on September 21, 2024, 2:48 pmLook Snape love isn't not an infatuation if that's what you are implying.
It's impossible neither are his thoughts intrusive I mean if they were how could he have done he could.
The pensive memories craft the past not exactly Intrusive toughts.
Look psychological theories are not enough and are actually very limited in describing things that do not fit into that category because Snape is capable of regulating his emotions its a myth if one assumes otherwise.
I mean why we assume is that he would prefer kindness and not something else?
Snape is not exactly one who cares much about kindness.
Why would he when kindness one thing as a leglimence he knows can not be truly worth it.
He preferred knowledge skill and in prince tale what he prefers about liliy her abilities not her apperance or her kindness to him.
His patronus as an adult is free to express and I believe Snape loved liliy emotional depth a depth he possessed not something he could express himself.
Snape is capable of deep connection which last so it is really you know at least for him unreasonable to assume his love is idealistic or infatuated when his patronus is anything but.
You completely missed the point. You misunderstood the core of what I were implying, that is no “infatuation”, but exactly the core problem of this kind of thinking - which is thinking that inherently limerence cannot coexist with genuine deep feelings and love. Whereas you imply in all your responses that it’s something completely cancelling each one another - and you say something like “idealistic and infatuated” while I were explaining for the entire length of said response that… it’s exactly not how every single case of limerence looks like nor does it come from “mental illness”. It feels like you were essentially circling around something that is not even a point I tried to make. Part of the things I also implied mostly hinted at the intensity of said feelings despite them never getting any chance to bloom nor get reciprocated, staying at the same constant, strong and genuine (therefore, lacking shallow infatuation aspect) level of unreciprocated love. For many people lacking this kind of intensity and experience that led to those feelings in the first place (that can lead to limerence) would result in said feelings fading over the course of the years.
I’m not exactly fighting nor attacking your perception of it mind you, but it generally feels to me like in these particular and some earlier responses you feel unnecessarily defensive of your own interpretation and you jump at people (even skipping through parts of their responses and creating new threads just to ‘counter them’) even if a different perspective of a different mind isn’t something that makes anyone’s impression matter more or less really. It’s not something you should feel attacked personally about and call everyone “unreasonable” just because you don’t agree with them.
@walden I absolutely loved what you wrote. It was thoughtful, eloquent, and overall, I couldn't agree more with your interpretation.
As someone on the tail end of Gen X, I often have a different perspective than the average HP fan. This is true for a lot of my interpretations, but never more so than when I'm discussing Severus's love for Lily. I grew up in the 80s and 90s, well before unrequited and/or unfulfilled love carried such a stigma. It was seen as bittersweet or even tragic in some cases, but I don't recall it being interpreted as creepiness or some deep character flaw. It makes me sad that so many people (mainly Marauders fans) can't see the distinction these days, that they don't have enough depth or empathy to put themselves in Severus's shoes. I'm not saying they have to like him or agree with all his actions, but not even being able to comprehend at the most basic level why a person in his situation might feel/think/react the way he did?
The question I always ask when they criticize him for being "obsessive" or "creepy" is, "What's the alternative?" How would they prefer him to feel, a person who lost the only person he ever truly loved and held himself responsible for her death? Was he just supposed to shrug his shoulders and forget about her? In what world would that make him a better person, or you know, not a sociopath?
Anyway…
I just want to reiterate how much I love what you wrote. Nuance is beautiful and something I can never get enough of where Severus is concerned. 💚
@az-aquarius You mentioned that you make a lot of errors because you're a fast typer. Can you please slow down and/or proofread so your posts are easier to read?
Also…
I'm not sure if you actually read @walden's post, but your aggression toward him is uncalled for. You're attacking him for things he didn't actually say, for one thing, and some of your phrasing comes across as downright hostile. Please be more considerate when responding to other members and respect that we all see Severus and his relationships a bit differently. It's okay to disagree, but it's important to be civil while doing so.
On that note…
I understand feeling passionate about Severus as a character. We all do, but it's good to remember that none of us have all the answers. Your version of Severus isn't better or more accurate than anyone else's… fictional characters are always open to interpretation, especially by those who love them.
@heatherlly First of all, I’d like to thank you for the kind compliment. It’s incredibly uplifting and encouraging, atop of just general that I’d like to show some appreciation for the time you took to read into the rather lengthy post. I weren’t sure initially if I’d make a point across, but even from that alone level, of someone sharing similar wavelength, it’s just nice to hear about.
Whereas I am not anywhere near gen X, being a zoomer, it’s still nice to hear a take from someone older with first-hand view of it, too (despite that I am pretty much aware of the historical context of even earlier than 80s views of love) as well as I can on purely cultural note add that I have noticed that in Poland generally this kind of beliefs strongest on far-west isn’t yet this strong and therefore I’ve gotten a glimpse of similar tragic/bittersweet/sad view on unreciprocated love.
While I absolutely don’t want to disrespect and disregard actual victims of stalking crimes, nor do I want to anyhow imply that it’s any less serious or important to take concern over them (and in any situation, I’d always back up the victim rather than excuse the perpetuator), it’s sort of a double-edge sword to be too sensitive on the matter either and often results in stigma spreading not only in actually concerning situations, but also hitting with ricochet on people who aren’t abusive, but happen to show way more intense feelings (or show them in non-standard ways). It’s genuinely saddening to me because as I said in my initial post, it’s very demeaning and pathologizing towards neurodivergent, traumatized and intense people and as you said, results in cutting them short on empathy or any attempt even to get into their shoes and understanding them. I absolutely don’t either care much about people not liking him, because it’s nothing of my concern, but it irks me more so on the level it spreads even on actual, alive people in its core points of no empathy and sometimes even excusing of serious things like SA or bullying. It makes me sometimes genuinely uncomfortable when people do logic gymnastics only to justify this sort of level, often falling into the territory of victim blaming. It makes me think “how must they regard actual victims they’ve probably met thorough their lives?”.
I think too, that a lot of it ultimately comes down to individual personality, life baggage and experience. And a lot of it can show in our interpretations. A person who’s only led happy, requited relationships won’t see love, neither fictional nor real in the same light as someone experienced with limerence or complicated/abusive situations related to it. It doesn’t inherently mean that one will be better than another, both have their advantages and cons, but it’s clear that we can’t expect the same reactions and route of thought in both cases. I personally view the way Severus reacted in as completely natural, and it just saddens me how society/people both can pressure others into relationships and at the same time, expect them not to react with actually strong grievance or the “bad” feelings once someone loses or isn’t able to pursue anything with someone they felt that true love for. But feelings aren’t tied to any morality, at all at their very core, they are just knee-jerk reactions to what is happening around you. It’s what someone does about them that redeems them as anyhow evil or good (and all the shades of grey in between) ultimately. It’s often forgotten how strong of an emotion true, deeply seated love is (and not all ever experienced it in their lives yet, too) with the power to both change people and make them feel literal, somatic pain at times.
It’s incredibly important in all cases not to judge immediately but to acknowledge possible ambiguity and consequences of any possible reaction/decision. Even with cases like Severus insulting Lily in strong emotions, despite me not excusing it, I sometimes mentally raise an eyebrow when people go about it as if they never felt confused or angry at someone they love and saying things they later regretted.
And I’ll also at this point, also reiterate that I am thankful for your input as well as the kindness.
Quote from Heatherlly on September 21, 2024, 11:09 pm@az-aquarius You mentioned that you make a lot of errors because you're a fast typer. Can you please slow down and/or proofread so your posts are easier to read?
Also…
I'm not sure if you actually read @walden's post, but your aggression toward him is uncalled for. You're attacking him for things he didn't actually say, for one thing, and some of your phrasing comes across as downright hostile. Please be more considerate when responding to other members and respect that we all see Severus and his relationships a bit differently. It's okay to disagree, but it's important to be civil while doing so.
On that note…
I understand feeling passionate about Severus as a character. We all do, but it's good to remember that none of us have all the answers. Your version of Severus isn't better or more accurate than anyone else's… fictional characters are always open to interpretation, especially by those who love them.
Also… yes, it’s also an impression I’ve gotten that I forgot to include in my last post. It essentially felt as if my post was watered down to a few random points taken out of context and the rest was something unspoken by me that got put into my mouth. I ultimately didn’t mean to start any at all sort of argument, but being aware that some of my opinions might be controversial in the fandom, I also want to say that I am completely aware of it and don’t need it to be pointed out in my face. It’s completely okay with me (and even expected in most cases) to see people disagreeing, but it felt more like an attack (especially considering them creating another separate thread specifically just to show their disagreement) than any civil, calm invitation to a debate.
And just because of said “controversy” I don’t mean to trigger anybody, I’m just here to state my opinion just like anyone else, on equal ground rather than looking for my views to be challenged and wanting to challenge anyone’s. Sure, it can happen but I likely won’t argue with anyone nor care to change their mind, because we all have our own individual personal meanings to fiction. I just speak my mind and any potential reader can just take it or leave it, doing whatever they want with it - I don’t demand anybody to agree.
I think it’d be just quite important to say that nobody besides Rowling herself is devoid of crystal clear view on any character in the series at all, and it’s quite naive in the first place to believe anyone at all will ever have the “truest most accurate” perception of something, because we all inherently will relate and project to different sections or bits of the same character and nobody will ever have 1:1 interpretation with the author of the series nor even any other fan, truth is (circling back to what I said about the influence of life experience and personality on everyone’s interpretation). We shouldn’t bind ourselves in an endless chase of trying to get into the author’s mind (even though it can be fun to speculate sometimes) but rather focus on our own way for characters to enrich our inner worlds and lives or even sometimes ways to cope, without necessarily feeling insecure about them.
Look I am sorry that was not my intention I realised that but the truth is I seen many labels of infatuation being labeled as Snape love and well that a bit too far considering their are clear prof in the book.
While look literature can be open it's also rather solid not just that open.
The patronuses they all are actually symbolic and the interpretation is not that open and the author is actually very accurate.
You are right we relate differently to things but symbolic perspectives don't change to be fair.
Doe are inherently symbolic representation of vulnerability and emotional depth and those were traits Snape did represented in the first place.
Anyway I did read your post but their were points I admit I couldn't find clear and I admit I was irritated look I did a lot of research so I admit I lost it.
While it's fine to assume literature can be open it does have an inherent truth and closed end and it could be dangerous to think of it as too open.
Rowling basis for her characters is spirtual as seen by her taking alchemical themes of transformation.
Her understanding believe me I read her posts isn't exactly shallow or empty she certainly gets it because I used to disagree but after reflection and reading and analysing her characters again it is more clear then ever
