Weekly Discussion: Favoritism
Quote from JaySM on July 19, 2023, 2:51 pmQuote from Dark Angel on July 19, 2023, 11:25 am22. Discussion: What is your headcanon on Eileen's backstory? How did she come to marry Tobias?
I agree with Naaga except that I would like to change a few things.
I don’t think she was that popular. A photo in the school paper doesn’t signal popularity to me because it was just a small snippet that was written and there wasn’t much said about Eileen personally, everything else we learn from Severus’ memories.
Severus has an interest in the Dark Arts at a young age, before school. I think that stems from family interest because Severus’ read Eileen’s old books. This leads me to believe that A, the Prince family are a pure blood family that comes from outside the UK and came after the Sacred 28 was made. B, Eileen’s mother was probably part of the Sacred 28 and married a Prince who wouldn’t be in the sacred 28 for the same reasons the Potters were.
This comes from the Wizarding World Website: “Why didn’t the Potters make the Sacred Twenty-Eight?
Potter is a common Muggle surname. Harry’s family didn’t make the list, according to J.K. Rowling, because ‘the anonymous compiler of that supposedly definitive list of pure-bloods suspected that they had sprung from what he considered to be tainted blood’.”The Princes’ probably had the same mindset as the Potters and Eileen’s mother probably had the same mindset about Dark Magic and muggles as the rest of the Dark Witches and Wizards in the Sacred 28. It would have made for a rocky marriage which I think would account for Eileen’s sullen expression during her youth.
During Eileen’s school year, I’d imagine that Voldemort was assembling a rally of Walspurgis Knights at the school. Eileen wanting nothing to do with the direction the Wizarding world was headed and sought a haven within the muggle world.
In comes, war-ridden Tobias, who exudes security and confidence and has a stable life in the mill. She falls in love and gives her Father’s belief in muggles a chance. She goes all in, heart and all. What she wouldn’t have taken account for was the drug addiction and alcoholism. The drug Amphetamine is a highly addictive drug that was used during the Korean War to increase focus and trigger aggression as well as keep their soldiers awake. I think Tobias was addicted and was still using said drugs while he was with Eileen. During the times he couldn’t, he would supply himself with alcohol as a holdover. When Tobias lost his job, he would begin selling things within the house just to get a bit of the drug or its cheaper, altered forms, like Methamphetamine. I could see Eileen staying, not truly understanding the muggle addiction and using her potions skills to invent something to help Tobias with the symptoms and inadvertently teaching Severus how to battle such drugs teaching him the inventive skills he currently has in his potions skills. Tobias gets more violent when both the good and bad symptoms of his drug use goes away and wants it tweaked where he only has the good side-effects. When it’s not to perfection, he physically releases tantrums.
It’s an abusive cycle where Eileen stays because she’s the only one that can help her husband and has hope that he’ll change not knowing she’s enabling his addictions. She becomes more bitter with Tobias’ ungratefulness as their marriage continues and probably uses dark magic to stop Tobias from hurting himself and others. With her attention on Tobias, there leaves no room for Severus. What little attention she gives him is used to help Eileen further help his father (which he really doesn’t like) and hearing her bitterness about how she should’ve heeded her mother’s words about muggles probably planted the seed on muggles. This deep seated dislike of muggles grows as he meets more that fit the negative muggle mindset.
I love how our headcanons are slightly overlapping!
And I agree with Eileen being the reason why Snape looks down upon muggles. I can totally see her being very vocal about her regrets in her choice of husband.
23. Discussion: What if Snape had a normal family with loving parents? How he would've turned out?
Quote from Naaga on July 20, 2023, 12:52 pm23. Discussion: What if Snape had a normal family with loving parents? How he would've turned out?
This would probably make a huge difference:
- He would have a better relationship with his father and through that also with muggles.
- Making friends would have probably been a lot easier for him.
- Christmas at home instead of Hogwarts.
- Maybe Christmas with Lily? 😉
- Probably he would also have made other friends at Hogwarts, especially ones who are also Lily's friends.
- If that was the case he would have had more support against the Marauders and wouldn't have needed the junior Death Eaters from his house.
- Maybe, but just maybe, he wouldn't even have been a Slytherin.
- He would have a better relationship with his parents and through that might also know his mom wouldn't be disappointed if he isn't a Slytherin.
But that are just my thoughts to that topic.
He would be happier, not that attached to Lily because she would be a normal friend and not the single best thing that has ever happened to him.
There also would be no bullying or it would be stopped before things got out of hand. If Snape had a good relationship with his parents, he would trust them with his problems and mention how the Marauders make his life at Hogwarts difficult who would then probably show up at school and give Dumbledore and the head of houses a piece of their mind. They may even threaten to send Severus to Beauxbatons, should they not put an end to the bullying.
His house may have changed as well, I would bet on Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw. Snape would not want to be part of Slytherin to desperately fit into the wizarding world and he wouldn't be biased towards muggles, he also wouldn't have been as ambitious. Kids from dysfunctional families are ambitious because they want to get away from their parents asap and the first step is to get good grades, built a career and become financially independent but if Snape came from a happy family, his goals would be vastly different. Because he is intelligent and creative, he probably would want to go to Ravenclaw because he wants to learn everything there is about magic.
The Death Eaters probably wouldn't even consider him if Severus had a good relationship with Tobias and loved his muggle father.
His whole life went down the drain because he was born into a shitty family. Lesson of the day: don't have kids if you can't give them the life they deserve.
A Severus Snape growing with a normal family would change him a lot.
Having normal parents would mean he would be happier, healthier and more socially inclined. He may befriend Lily but he won't be that canon dependent on Lily like canon Snape.
He certainly won't antagonise Petunia. A normal family Snape would be financially better off than canon Snape so Petunia won't get classist. This Snape having a loving father won't be antagonistic to muggles. Petunia might still resent Snape for having something special like magic which she lacks.
About his house, I may have to disagree with @darkangel. Snape wished to get into Slytherin not because he was pro-wizard or he was anti-muggle, he wanted to get into Slytherin because he thought it was a cool house for brainy kids and even wanted muggleborn Lily into Slytherin there for same reason. I don't see why he would want to get into anything other than Slytherin even in this scenario. Also Slytherin didn't get their bad reputation until end of first war where majority of death eaters turned out as members of Slytherin house. James didn't like Slytherin because of same reason as Draco didn't like Hufflepuff, he dislike was not based on some ancient Gryffindor-Slytherin rivalry or a stigma assosiated with Slytherin.
Yeah, but I bet this Slytherin happy Snape won't be going for Death Eaters. I also don't believe this fanon that all Slytherins were evil or went to death eaters in first war period. Most of them were misguided kids who parroted views of their parents and didn't know any better. So this Snape who isn't anti-muggle won't fall into junior DE club and would rather become friends with non-DE Slytherins, he may end up becoming an outcast so he would find more friends among Ravenclaws and other houses.
I can't say anything for Marauders-Snape dynamic, with butterfly effects we can't say.
This Snape would become a favoured student of Slughorn, a member of Order of the Phoenix, an accomplished potions master or DADA expert and marry a girl he likes, who won't be necessarily Lily.
Quote from Naaga on July 21, 2023, 2:17 amA Severus Snape growing with a normal family would change him a lot.
Having normal parents would mean he would be happier, healthier and more socially inclined. He may befriend Lily but he won't be that canon dependent on Lily like canon Snape.
He certainly won't antagonise Petunia. A normal family Snape would be financially better off than canon Snape so Petunia won't get classist. This Snape having a loving father won't be antagonistic to muggles. Petunia might still resent Snape for having something special like magic which she lacks.
About his house, I may have to disagree with @darkangel. Snape wished to get into Slytherin not because he was pro-wizard or he was anti-muggle, he wanted to get into Slytherin because he thought it was a cool house for brainy kids and even wanted muggleborn Lily into Slytherin there for same reason. I don't see why he would want to get into anything other than Slytherin even in this scenario. Also Slytherin didn't get their bad reputation until end of first war where majority of death eaters turned out as members of Slytherin house. James didn't like Slytherin because of same reason as Draco didn't like Hufflepuff, he dislike was not based on some ancient Gryffindor-Slytherin rivalry or a stigma assosiated with Slytherin.
Yeah, but I bet this Slytherin happy Snape won't be going for Death Eaters. I also don't believe this fanon that all Slytherins were evil or went to death eaters in first war period. Most of them were misguided kids who parroted views of their parents and didn't know any better. So this Snape who isn't anti-muggle won't fall into junior DE club and would rather become friends with non-DE Slytherins, he may end up becoming an outcast so he would find more friends among Ravenclaws and other houses.
I can't say anything for Marauders-Snape dynamic, with butterfly effects we can't say.
This Snape would become a favoured student of Slughorn, a member of Order of the Phoenix, an accomplished potions master or DADA expert and marry a girl he likes, who won't be necessarily Lily.
Wait a sec, I thought we said he would come from a normal family as in "functional" not necessarily financially well off. The Weasleys are poor but still a happy and loving family. So Petunia would still judge him for being poor and a freak. His poverty could be a main insecurity for him like with Ron.
With the house, he could be sorted into Slytherin again but I imagined that this time around his mother would warn him that not everyone there has a positive opinion of muggles, so he may not idolize it as much as canon. Just because he wanted Lily in Slytherin in canon, doesn't mean he wasn't biased towards muggles and muggleborns, he does use the word like an insult against Petunia and after the lake incident Lily does reveal that Snape has no trouble using the word mudblood to refer to other muggleborns but until that incident he simply drew a line at Lily.
But if he still got sorted into Slytherin he would definitely avoid the Death Eater crowd and stick to people who are more open-minded. Andromeda was a Black and a Slytherin and still married a muggleborn, so not all of them are blood supremacists
I mean if Tobias is a normal parent, he would be more productive member of the society and while Snape won't be well off, they won't be hurting for finances either, a lower middle class family, I think.
I agree about not idolising the house as much as canon Snape @darkangel, I believe Snape would like it, Eileen would warn her about blood purists and tell him to steer clear of them.
I didn't say he didn't resent muggles in canon, just that his reasons for wanting to go Slytherin had nothing to do with looking down on muggles. He was, I think definitely biased against muggles but can't say about muggleborn, he befriended a muggleborn so I choose to believe he wasn't biased against muggleborns before Hogwarts, and picked blood purism during his Hogwarts years and, that's why he used slurs against muggleborns in his Hogwarts years.
24. Discussion: Do you think Severus Snape was a bully? Why or why not?
Yes. Don't get me wrong, I love him but I'm also not blind to his faults. The difference between me and a Snater is that I understand where his less desirable personality traits come from.
From Lily we find out that he doesn't mind hanging out with bullies like Mulciber and most probably he takes part as well but then again, no one seems to.kind when he's being bullied so what's the big deal?
He did join a terrorist organization. Granted he didn't have many options but it is what it is.
And as a teacher he bullied little children which is wrong on two levels: 1. Take on someone your size and 2. Do not abuse your position.
But then again, it is more complicated than him simply being nasty to a bunch of kids. Snape has to keep a cover. He is the Head of Slytherin House and many of his students are children of Death Eaters. Children chatter on about every single detail that happens in their life. Snape is a spy, so far so good. He supposedly works for Dumbledore to keep an eye on him but if he is also nice to blood traitors and mudbloods, wouldn't his fellow Death Eaters get suspicious? Maybe it's more than just acting and this guy really changed sides.
Besides, Voldemort is a legilimens. Snape needs to show him that he is loyal to him, what better way than showing how much he despises those around him? Granted, I guess he did e joy the power he held over those kids.
Quote from Naaga on July 22, 2023, 8:38 am24. Discussion: Do you think Severus Snape was a bully? Why or why not?
I wish I could respond differently, but yes.
We don't know all that much about his life despite all the tid bits we get throughout the books. We do know that he was hanging out with bullies at school, and we also know he joined the Death Eaters which are kind of by definition looking to oppress the "lesser".
I would also consider the way he treated Hermione, Harry and Neville to be particularly unfair and sometimes emotionally abusive. He was stuck in the past, only seeing James in Harry. And yes, Harry does have his own flaws that undoubtedly play their part, but as a teacher Snape is responsible for protecting the students from physical as well as mental harm.
Now, after I have acted out my role as a Snater, I feel obliged to defend... myself. I'm sure we all have counterarguments to these points (myslef included), so I won't go listing them here. He was abused, he didn't exactly choose to become a teacher etc., we all know how it goes. I still don't think this excuses his treatment of Harry and Neville in particular, but I also don't think he's as bad a bully as many make him out to be.
He always delivers his advice with cutting sarcasm, which is often exaggerated in fanfiction, and we end up with people thinking he killed Trevor, gloated over Sirius' death, and tortured children during his time as headmaster. But we have proof that students found him to be a good teacher (Ernie Macmillan comments after that first DADA class in sixth year: "good lesson, I thought"), so he couldn't have been that bad. Looking at him through Harry's eyes, we see perhaps the worst of Snape. And if "I see no difference" is the worst he's got, that's almost commendable considering the circumstances.
All in all, I do think he was bully, but I don't think he was malicious, or took any sort of pleasure in hurting children. He just wasn't always successful in his attempts to be a good person.
